I’m having a problem removing instrument numbering, and I can’t seem to find it addressed among any of the threads on the topic. I’ve got a score with one clarinettist who switches between Bb and A clarinet. I’ve made a single player, added both types of clarinet to them, and tried the “space in front of the name” trick by renaming the A clarinet to " Clarinet", but the instruments still appear numbered in the score. I’ve read several threads and multiple pages in the Help file, and I’ve tried everything I can think of, but the clarinets still appear as “Clarinet in Bb I” and “Clarinet in A II.” What am I doing wrong? Thanks, everyone!
Aha — I tried creating a new project and the problem no longer occurs. I think this is a lingering issue with the file I started with, an older “template” file I made in a previous version of Dorico.
I was wrong: this isn’t related to opening or working from an old file. It’s related specifically to the setting found under Engraving Options > Staff Labels > Numbering > “Numbering for similar instruments with different transpositions.”
This setting is frequently discussed with horn pairs, which is the example given in the help files. In the most simple cases, though, it has the effect of enabling or disabling numbering entirely. With one clarinet player holding a Bb and an A clarinet, choosing the “Number separately” option turns numbering off. With it set to “Number together,” one transposition gets called “1” and the other “2,” presumably in the order one added them to the project originally.
Anyway, I hope that solution helps the next person! Steinberg staff, I couldn’t find mention of this in the documentation.
Addenda: First, I didn’t have to use the “space in front of name” trick to make the numbering vanish for my clarinets. Second, I’m now stuck with “Number separately” if my project does indeed require four horns, two in F and two in D, like in the illustration in Engraving Options. If I want four horns numbered 1 through 4, my solution for the clarinets no longer works.
It’s not exactly that it turns numbering off – it’s that in this case, there’s no numbering needed. The Bb and A clarinets are considered separately with this setting, and there’s only one of each.
@asherber That’s a good point.
I wish I knew how to resolve the problem I brought up about the horns. I’m just lucky that my current project doesn’t need anything “numbered together.” Is there a setting I’ve missed somewhere?
I would expect one could number the horns manually if Dorico would not do it automatically with the settings you need set. The Setup option to Change Instrument Name, or to change and use Player names which one can also customize, should serve.
Thanks for sharing – what did you search for?
And just to be completely sure we’re all looking at the same thing, were you searching the latest online webhelp?
Dorico’s factory default Engraving Options mean that a Clarinet in Bb and Clarinet in A being held by the same player aren’t automatically numbered. Therefore, you’ve somehow ended up with the setting already changed, or perhaps you forgot that you changed it to accommodate a different configuration?
Thanks, everyone!
Derrek, good point — I could just call them “Horn III” or whatever was needed, and let the transposition get appended automatically.
Lille, I got the link I posted from the same Help you posted, v. 5.1 — mine’s found by browsing to Setup Mode > Instrument Numbering, scrolling down, and clicking on “Numbering instruments with different transpositions separately/together” (no search required).
I tried a new project in 5.1 with default factory settings, and found what you found, Lillie: indeed, the default settings result in the two clarinets having no numbering at all. Switching the “Numbering for similar instruments with different transpositions” switch in Engraving Options causes them to be numbered. You’re correct that the older file I was starting with originally had this setting already switched on.
The remaining problem, then, is: how do we engrave a work with two clarinets in A and Bb, which should have no numbering, and four horns, which should be “numbered together”? The “space before the name” trick doesn’t seem to work on the clarinets here (maybe that’s because of the different clarinet transpositions), and anyway that’s a workaround and a “real” solution would be preferable. Derrek’s idea of just making the numbers part of the name seems reasonable, but I wonder if there’s a more “automatic” way.
You can put players in separate player groups to prevent them being numbered together.
Using a group doesn’t solve the issue, though. The clarinettist, when in a group by herself, still ends up with both her instruments numbered (when the ‘Number together’ option is set in Engraving Options, to number the horns I through IV).
Here are some screenshots I’ve taken, all using a factory default new file in Dorico 5.1, to illustrate what I’m seeing on my end:
- A factory default new file, with two clarinets, one in Bb and one in A, held by a single player; and also including four horns, two in D and two in F. In this screenshot, “Number separately” is set in Engraving Options, as the factory default (in this new project, I have never yet opened the Engraving Options dialog).
- The same setup with “Number together” set in Engraving Options. Now the horns are numbered correctly, but the clarinets are numbered too, which is wrong.
- The clarinet put in its own group to prevent numbering. “Number together” remains set in Engraving Options, same as step 2. It seems that groups don’t have an effect on instrument numbering, only on player numbering. There’s only one clarinettist, though, so while I could get around the problem by having two clarinet Players, semantically that’s incorrect, and it would preclude Dorico’s automatic instrument change labels, which are really useful.
- Just out of curiosity, I put all the horns in a group instead. Notice the numbering: they are now Horns I, II, I [sic], and IV. That’s a new problem I didn’t even know existed. (As in steps 2 and 3, “Number together” is still set in Engraving Options.)
Putting players into separate player groups prevents automatic instrument numbering between players. If all the instruments are held by the same player, then no this won’t help.
Putting all your 4 horns in the same group shouldn’t impact instrument numbering, because the players are in the same group. You should see an impact if you, say, had 2 horns but didn’t want them to be numbered. If one horn was in a group and the other wasn’t, or they were both in independent groups, then they wouldn’t be numbered.
The discrepancies in numbering that you’re seeing could be to do with player name overrides, but it’s hard to say for sure without seeing the project file itself.
I can send you all the file I just created for the screenshots, if you like! There are no overrides or anything odd — the process I described in the screenshots is everything I did to the factory default file.
Regardless of the horn numbering, the I–II–I–IV problem, the groups, or anything, I still don’t know how to have the horns numbered together without the clarinets getting numbered. What I want is:
Clarinet
Horn I
Horn II
Horn III
Horn IV
It could simply not be possible right now, without overrides.
Regarding the project, that’s generally what we request to make dealing with issues quicker and easier:
I just added instruments normally and then told the computer layouts to use the altered Clarinet Player name for the Clarinets, and Dorico did the rest.
instrNumbering.dorico (603.5 KB)
That’s a great idea Derrek – although you might lose the transposition distinction that way.
Alternatively, you could set the option to “number transpositions separately” to be correct for the Clarinets and show their transpositions, but then rename the Horn players to be I-IV. Then, show player names in staff labels for the horns.
That still involves some manual numbering, but it’s closer?
Derrek, that’s also a thoughtful workaround, and I tried it. The problem is that using Player Names instead of Instrument Names for staff labels eliminates the transposition. Now the staff label just says “Clarinet.” It should say “Clarinet in A” (or whatever has notes at the time).
P.S. Oh, I see Lillie just posted the same point.
Good idea, Lillie. That matches Derrek’s idea in post no. 7. Derrek, I think I see what you’ve got there — if I understand your most recent screenshot, you’ve added manual numbers to the instrument names.
So, as a summary: the problem is how to get two clarinets, of different transpositions, held by one player, to have no numbers, but also have four horns numbered “together,” that is, sequentially, I–IV. There seem to be two solutions, both of them slight workarounds:
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Set Engraving Options to “Number separately,” then manually name the Horn instruments to include their numbers. You don’t need to include the horns’ transpositions, as these are normally supplied automatically.
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Set Engraving Options to “Number separately,” manually name the Horn players to include their numbers and transpositions, and set Layout Options to use Player names instead of Instrument names for all four horns.
In either case, Engraving Options must be set to “Number separately” for the multiple transposing instruments held by a single player — in our case, the clarinets — to remain unnumbered.
I’d love to see Dorico offer similarly robust options for instrument numbering as it does for player numbering! In the meantime, thanks to you all.