which is why it’s such fun creating your own Latin – I on the whole prefer Italian Latin but sometimes smuggle in some German Latin as well into my works. Normally a choir conductor will specify which variant is supposed to be sung (in Germany – in the UK it’s even more of a mess) but if that’s not the case then chaos is likely to ensue… Most commonly it seems that German/Austrian composers one goes for German Latin (as you suggested) but it doesn’t seem to be a hard and fast rule here.
We’re talking Roman Catholic Church what also has many, many cultures that comprise ONE Universal Church music which uses Latin, Greek, Aramaic/Hebrew for it’s Liturgical language going back 2,000 years, same as the Apostles, and uses the vernacular for many of it’s hymns. So, I get the “many, many”, but, from MANY we The Church are ONE.
For instance, hymns like “Amazing Grace”, “How Great Thou Art”, those are sung in English.
For hymns like “Entre Tus Manos”, “Más Alla Del Sol”, those are sung in Spanish. ““Lourdes Hymn”/“Immaculée Marie”, is originally in French with a Latin chorus, but also is sung in Spanish (“Del Cielo Ha Bajado”), and songs like “Panis Angelicus” are sung multilingually in French, Latin, Spanish, English, etc.
The above are also translated in Korean, Chinese, & Vietnamese for Catholic Communities/Parishes, so there’s plenty of work to be done in the Mission, of which is a whole other subject, but back to the Latin if you will.
Since Latin and their translations are ancient, they are in the public domain and Roman Catholic Dioceses and the many, many Protestant, and the many, many Evangelical have copyrighted translations, the old Ancient Latin and Greek and Aramaic/Hebrew Liturgical language sources are free to use and compose to and from there you can present to publishers a completed work and later on you can have agencies get the proper copyrights. Same is true with the Hymn Tunes. Hymns like, “How Great Thou Art” are NOT in the public domain, but “Amazing Grace” is.
Bach, Scarlatti, Vivaldi, Hayden, Puccini, Verdi, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Liszt, … well of course I can go on, and on, and on … They all wrote Masses in Latin. There are many, many composers who didn’t. But these composers wrote Masses in the ONE language. Latin. Yet, hymns, psalm settings, canticles, and madrigals are still composed using the vernacular of each parish’s culture. Even translations of great composers of the many, many other churches are translated and gathered in, such as the great German Easter hymn, “lasst uns erfreuen” (Friedrich Spee/Ralph Vaughan Williams), and the great German Christmas hymn “Stille Nacht” (Joseph Mohr/Franz Gruber) of which many know as “All Creatures of Our God and King” (and many other titles) and “Silent Night” are done in English, Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese in Catholic Churches.
Ah yes! “Jesu” vs “Iesu” …. and “Hierosolyma” vs “Hierusalem”. It’s like in English; toothpaste vs dentifiss … Theatre vs Theater … and Spanish “hongos” vs “champiniones/champiñones” and “bien” vs “bién” vs “buen” … My head is hurting! I need more vegetables? Or is it VEGtuhbulls? I’m so uncomf’terble!
Returning to the toils of my labor (Getting back to work!)!
You being extremely VULGAR in your Latin! LOL
I have Italian friends are SWEAR it’s pronounced, “in ek-SHELL-sees Deo (diphthong, no “DAY-YO” … sorry Harry!) and you hear choirs sing “in ek-CELL-sís…”. Just as there are many Americans accents, many UK accents, many Spanish (from SPAIN) accents, many Spanish (Mexican) accents, language is really WYSIWYG, or WYSIWP! Give THAT some thawt! Sirusly, it’s rouGH!
See my long response below …
Yes, dko22, you are correct. Latin, Greek, Aramaic/Hebrew composing is the foundation of the original Liturgical Music. Catholic Churches use all languages daily in their Masses. The Kyrie is done in Greek at the beginning. The “Agnus Dei” is still sung as are the Hosanna, Amen, Maranatha, etc. They haven’t gone away. At daily and weekly Masses in California all languages are incorporated because of the kind of communities we have.
Here is one of the parishes I play/sing/direct at:
Go to 18:35 to hear the Greek Kryie, 24:50 (to hear your’s truly, … that would be me … playing the intro of Pslam 23), and go to 1:00:05 to hear the “Agnus Dei” …. We also sing contempory/country music, and good ol’ Irish Hymns. From the many, are made One.
Yes, … Handel, Brahms, Wagner avoided Latin. But the fine Jewish composers Leonard Bernstein, Arnold Schoenberg, Castelnuovo-Tedesco did indeed compose Masses in Latin.
As far as the “sacred choral works” we are referring to is all the same religion, Christianity. Latin Liturgical music, “Lasst Uns Erfreuen”, “Amazing Grace”, “How Great Thou Art” … Yes, we are talking about the same religion L3B. Fish vs Fishes.
It is very much a labor of love, …one that I can only dedicate a certain amount of time to doing, but it is worth it. For years, I hated to do “the extra work” like making my scores LOOK good and readable. It was easier just to blow things out quickly, and sometimes you have no choice to work in that way.
But, as one get better at a certain app like Dorico, one should it at least try to institute elements of your work flow that would make better LOOKING and better ENGRAVED scores to your end user (the musicians that you hire to be able to successfully play what you’ve composed/arranged) so they can have a piece of music where their parts don’t have weird pages turns or your phrases going across system/page changes/turns.
Such as with the DAW element of working with composing. At SOME POINT, it is prudent to be able to use what you’ve suffered for and record the dog-on thing, so your workflow (mine at least) should have elements prepped/built-into-them that will allow for exporting to WAV/Audio and or MIDI and XML. COMPOSING and ARRANGING and ENGRAVING will pay SOME bills, but recording, while not being the money maker it could/should/can be, it’s good to have multiple ways of making a living. I am a classical guitar major/player/teacher that took piano and theory as a kid that directs choirs, plays with other choirs and work under other directors and has become a SINGER of all things (my years in rock bands paid off), who also has to arrange for band students (trumpets, clarinets, strings) to play along to the music we sing, and who also has to compose some stuff. All that to make a pretty ok living, while working for a publisher IN MY FREE TIME 
while still working on my own stuff!
So, dk022, it was beyond my mixing skills too, but I slowly added to my workflow. My wife says I conduct in my sleep, so maybe all of this is not good for us!
In any case, … any time we can share knowledge of which coming on Forums like this with all of you fine people who gladly share and contribute back (it is MUCH appreciated), is ALSO important and needed for our musical journey. Thank you all!!!
HAPPY DORICOing!
Of course there are countless accents, but with regard to sung classical music on stage or concert hall there is a standard pronunciation, in the German language region we call it “Bühnendeutsch” (stage German) and I’m pretty sure there are those standards in other languages, too. That’s what I’m expecting Cantai is going to accomplish. In case of Latin in works of German or Italian composers either stage Italian Latin or stage German Latin, no less, no more.
Ok, I understand. Yes, you are correct. There are colloquial/regional accents in every culture. Here in the USA, New York (Ne-yew Yawk) accent was most popular on TV & film even up till the 1970’s. Listen to dem East Coast accents on the movie taken place at Ridell High School in California. Now in the USA (in TV & Motion Pictures) it’s that mumbly vocal-fry (like nails on a chalkboard) of us Cee-ya-al-uh-for-nee-yens LIKE TOTALLY use, SKREH-ZEH (<<< short for “It’s crazy”).
However in “pop culture”, you’ll hear that “generic” English accent, a la Princess Leia for a few sentences here in there in the original Star Wars, or even hear Madonna go through her “generic” English accent “phase”.
With Cantai and other AI voices, I am assuming it is daunting to find the PERFECT accent for each language when you have us USA’ers pronounce a word like “banana” into “buh-næ-nuh” (the “næ” sounding as a USA’er pronouncing the word “apple”), or pronouncing a word like “Alleluia”, and your choir will sing “aw-lay-lieu-yuh”. Other Americans such the ones in Mexico of which my family originates, also have a slew of Mexican dialects/accents/pronunciations even within the borders of Mexico and those in the USA. None of the Spanish pronunciations of Mexicans sound like Cuban, Venezuelan, Costa Rican, Puerto Rican, or Spain Spanish. All are distinct, as are the Uh-mair-ik-can English of the South, Boston, News York & Jersey (wow that was fun to type!) and Valley Girl California (where I live) and also distinct are the English of the UK (London, Liverpool, Ireland, Scotland) and furva-moe (that’s furthermore) Australia.
Cantai, AceStudio, SynthesizerV, Cantamus and all other AI voices to come out are probably using the same AI code (just like all DAWs look the same, all 1 rack interfaces look the same, all pianos have a white n black keys …. CONSPIRACY I SAY!!!…. , and I also am made of strans of DNA and have 2 arms and 2 legs …), it’s interesting that they all sound, … $imilar. :-/ Might I be a $u¢ker?!??!
I keep telling you: Cantai should use IPA (the alphabet, not the beer). It allows you to specify the pronunciation of every language, dialect, accent, or even most nonsense text you need. It’s the scientific standard in linguistics.
To base “foreign”
pronunciations on the utterly stupid American orthography used to notate the limited American (which one?) inventory of phonemes is bound to fail. See above.
Agreed, but for me at least it’s devilishly hard to learn. Back when I was in college in the late 1950s, there were only about forty or so different symbols, and I knew them well. Most of them looked very much like English alphabet letters and were pretty easy to figure out. Now there are over 160 to learn, and I’m sorry but that’s ridiculous. Yes, if I knew what fricative and plosive and all those words meant, and could remember, I could probably figure out how to ‘spell’ this or that word and wouldn’t have to memorize all the symbols, but as it is I have to look through the whole list to (maybe) figure out what proper pronunciation actually sounds like in real life. And then to turn all that precise information into a type-able script to put into a score as lyrics?!?!? No thanks.
In that case, I’ll hops to it! 
Cantai is coming to Dorico! UPDATE
The goal for Cantai has always been “playback that just works.” If you use NotePerformer, you know that feeling—you write the score, press play, and the articulations and expressions are just there. I’ve always wanted that same seamless experience for virtual singers.
Today, I’m thrilled to show you the Cantai VST running directly inside Dorico, working side-by-side with NotePerformer.
Watch the full demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKRJ4qdO_DQ
In this demo, the orchestra is handled by NotePerformer while Cantai takes care of the solo vocal. They stay perfectly in sync, rendering updates automatically as you write. If you use NotePerformer for your instruments, Cantai is the missing piece for your vocals.
PRE-ORDER & SAVE 50%
Our official launch is April 30th. Until then, you can grab the pre-order for half price.
Secure your copy here: https://cantai.app/preorder_dorico_sibelius
(50% discount expires April 30)
What we’re refining for the Beta:
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Seamless Integration: Designed to feel as effortless as NotePerformer.
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Smart Lyrics: Flawless handling of multiple verses and complex repeats.
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Vocal Chords: Full support for multiple notes on a single staff.
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Speed: Optimized rendering that stays out of your way.
If you write opera, art songs, or musical theater in Dorico, this is built specifically for your workflow. More updates coming soon!
Voxos uses their (I forget what’s it’s called) own thing; the MuseScore version is very limited and I can’t $pend the money on the full version. EastWest Choirs uses both English, Phonetic and Voxtox … Botox? It tracks ok, and when paired with AceStudio and Cantai, it’s useable.
I’d love the option for Cantai to use IPA to save me from the ridiculous things I need to do to sing a Greek “Kyrie” or an Aramaic/Hebrew “Maranatha”, or even Emmanuel; in Spanish we say “Eh man nwel” (last syllable is a diphthong ), or Israel in a NOT American English prununseeashun.
FYI, I am LOVING Cantai in Dorico! Still similar issues as there were in MuseScore, but, I don’t have to work in MuseScore anymore 
Hey, Turingopera, well done with Cantai. I’m loving it.
I’m having a few little minor issues, where is the best place to ask questions/trouble shoot? I mean, Cantai for Dorico specifically.
Thanks again, and great work with Cantai.
Email the file(s) in question, along with log files, to turingopera@gmail.com
On a Mac: Open Finder (the smiley face icon in your dock). At the top of your screen, click “Go,” then “Go to Folder.” A little box will pop up. Copy and paste this exactly, then press Return:
~/.cache/Cantai
A folder will open showing some files. Find the ones called stderr.txt and VST.log, and attach them to your reply.
(If nothing happens or the box says the folder can’t be found, press these three keys together: Command, Shift, and the period key. That makes hidden folders visible. Then try again.)
On a Windows PC: Open File Explorer (the yellow folder icon in your taskbar). Click on the address bar at the top — the strip that shows where you are, like “This PC > Documents.” Copy and paste this exactly, then press Enter:
%LOCALAPPDATA%\Cantai\
A folder will open. Find the files called stderr.txt and VST.log, and attach them to your reply.
I’ve mentioned this before but it seems the location for the VST.log for Windows is incorrect. Although the stderr.txt can indeed be found where you say, the VST.log is at the root level of the users folder and not in appdata\local. In other words [user]\cache\Cantai. This is also – on my system at any rate, a very large 50Mb file which could not be attached in an email. Maybe you could confirm – it’s possible the setup on my system is different for some reason, I guess.
Thanks for the correction — you’re right, VST.log on Windows is at [user]\cache\Cantai, not %LOCALAPPDATA%\Cantai. I’ll update the post above.
For the 50MB size, zip the file first — log text compresses to a fraction of that. If it’s still too large for email, WeTransfer to turingopera@gmail.com works. I’ll also take a look at why the log is growing that big; it shouldn’t be.
I already sent Tech Support this log file a few days ago in connection with my problem that most existing as opposed to newly created Cantai files are not opening (those which I have managed to get to work I’m very happy with). And indeed you’re quite correct, it compressed down to small enough to send by email so the filesize itself is of less concern. But it’s possible the size of the file itself might give some pointers as to why I – and some others as well – have had issues with opening existing projects.