Cantai: singing your Dorico files. Some results

Dorico
122

My problems with choir sounds are not on the full Requiem - have not even attempted to change the choir to Cantai on that massive project - I created a new SSATB document and simply pasted a small section of the choral parts into it (maybe 15 bars). Changed from NP to Cantai, and awaited the results.
So far, not particularly inspiring with all the problems outlined earlier unchanged by having all the latest downloads and a fast computer.

My wife, in her no-nonsense critique, said when I played it to her in a what-do-you-think moment, 'It’s horrible, reminds me of Mongolian throat singers". Ow! I quite like much of it.

However, deleting and repasting the vocal parts from my original score have not solved the flaws, just shifted them into a different place or voice!

No worries, I will keep trying as the promise is so nearly there

123

Not in reply to anyone in particular but just an FYI: Cantai will sing weirdly on short duration slurred notes if the lyric lacks a lyric extender line under the remainder of notes in a melisma.

I experienced this when importing xml files from Finale. Lyric extenders do not always materialize in the import process.

124

Just as I trash Apple, the new M5/M6 MacMinis are announced!

Back to Cantai v3.0.2 not working. After upgrading last week, then having crashes, the UN-installing (per Cantai’s instructions) and RE-installing (per Cantai’s instructions), v3.0.2 was still crashing.

Solution? UN-installing v3.0.2 again (per Cantai’s instructions), and RE-installing V3.0 which had been working good. Now Cantai is working. Thank goodness I have the DMG still in my Download folder.

V3.0.2 is not usable for me.

V3.0 still working great.

Below is a link to a screen recording of v3.0 working fine … still getting “THUH earrrrth” rather than “THEE earth”, which I can/will change in the lyrics to “THEE” instead of “the” … Also getting “tuh touch”, instead “TOO/TWO” touch… v3.0.2 was handling these much better, but I’ll settle for not being a crash test dummy.

Back to my vacation (and occasionally sneaking off to work and update forums). Hope you’re all joyfully Doricoin’ and Cantaing!

125

I am back home from vacation and, since I un-installed V3.0.2, and re-installed V3.0 (on my M3 MacBook/Sequoia) I was able to use Cantai v3.0.2 on my Tahoe M4 MacMini and it is freezing and crashing Dorico, so it’s definitely v3.0.2 …

V3.0 is working good on my M3 MacBook Air.

126

Could it possibly be a licensing issue? Do you deactivate on one machine before activating on the other? I may be mistaken but I don’t believe Cantai’s license allows for use on more than machine at a time. Just a spurious thought for whatever it is (or isn’t) worth…

127

Not at all a licensing issue. Every time I go between computers, it is part of my ritual to deactivate Steinberg‘s licensing, Cantai’s licensing, then, deauthorizing my iLok Cloud, and deactivating the non-cloud ilock licensing from the previous computer … shut down the old computer, go to the new computer, restart it, and do the whole process of reauthorizing each of the above, so, no it’s not a licensing issue.

There was a licensing/authorization bug for a while in v3, where it would just keep asking for the activation code,but after doing the ritual of the uninstall, then reinstall Cantai, that fixed that issue.

No, v3.0.2 has a totally different issue, now confirmed by Cantai support who replied to my email regarding this issue. This is definitely a crash issue that keeps happening and freezes Dorico… v3.0.2 will work for a few minutes and just keep crashing and crashing.

Again, I tried it on my other two computers, of course, after doing the ritual dance of de authorizing and authorizing, and I’ve confirmed at least on my end, and the support team has confirmed that this is a problem solely with V .3.0.2,… then I did a complete uninstall of V .3.0.2, and reinstalled V 3.0, everything is working fine,. Unfortunately, you have the slowness and issues with V 3.0, but there are no crashes. But, with V 3.0 you just have to keep doing the restarts as Cantai will just stop rendering or not playback altogether.

I can’t imagine how much is going on under the hood with all the code and running Cantai, so users will have to be patient and vigilant about upgrading and not update updates. For my part, I have learned the lesson of not upgrading every single one of my computers to a new version, without testing it on one of my other Macs first

I have yet to try the upgraded version of Cantai on Muse score. In the past, Musescore seemed to render things with less problems than Dorico, and I prefer the percentage bars per staff rather than the “task pies” of Dorico, but that’s just me. Dorico is far superior in many ways over Musescore, but Musescore exports Audio better, and more correctly, and Cantai has always seemed to work better, so over the past year, I have had to do workarounds by, composing in Dorico, exporting to XML, and importing that XML into MuseScore, Dorico has had problems exporting XML correctly since at least version 4, don’t know why that is. Certain apps like Encore had the same issue in the past, and during those days, I would have to export XML from Encore, open it in Finale, and from there, the midi exports were rendered correctly. Again, don’t know why that was back then, and I don’t know why Dorico is problematic in the same way.

Hopefully with future updates, these things will be remedied. I hope they don’t get buried in code and never fixed like Sibelius, Encore, Finale, Overature …

128

Sorry I can’t help with your Cantai issue, but you know you can install Dorico on 3 computers simultaneously without the need to juggle with licenses?

129

And if you have a USB key for iLok, you just switch it between computers

130

Yes, … I’ve had an iLok USB die (in 2009, luckily, only had a Waves & Line 6 license on it at the time), and yes, I know the Downtime option$ that are offered, but I prefer the per computer dance and if that comp dies, I can contact each company to remove authorizations. Been through it all in the past few decades, including USB Type-A iLok Dongle$ only being offered until they’re not, and not being able to u$e my updated plugin$ and all of their u$able features (UAD, Waves, just to name a few) on my older computers (where the USB Type A dongles fit perfectly BTW!) … Here is a photo of just one of my pile of what I love to call me “beloved unusables”!

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Actually I still use each of these with Logic 9 and x32 at a couple of schools/churches.

So, the workflow I use isn’t ideal, but it is better than lo$ing dongle$ and paying for the plea$ure of u$ing what I’ve already legally pur¢ha$ed.

131

Aware of that, and am also aware of that you can deauthorize via logging onto my account and de-authorizing … trading one dance for another. I do my Cha-Cha … others the Pechanga … we’re all still dancing.

It all depends on your workflow, and if you’re working in a team, office, or solo environment.

I have buddies in the cartoon and comics world … some only trace, some only color in, and they use their own computers at their own locations while using the same licenses. Our music team has composer, arrangers (often the same person, sometimes not), project builders, engravers, clean up crews for publishing, renderers (the guys that take the audio to Logic and Cubase) … our work flow of de-authorize when you log off, hence the reason for our Roger Rabbit (the dance, not the movie/character).

132

Back to the topic, I am finding that Cantai gets muddled the more I adjust and change things in vocal lines. For example, I’ve been working on a composition for the last several hours. Usually, Cantai Ottetto voices do a superb job of enunciating and pronouncing correctly. However, the longer that I work in a piece, the more the enunciations sound like someone singing through a mouth full of cotton.

All of a sudden, “Savior” which was pronounced correctly in v3.0.1, now is pronounced Savvy-er. I’m wondering if the AI engine is a little sketchy…supposedly nothing like that was supposed to change in v3.0.2. This also happens when the cache exceeds 3GB and the two scenarios can be mutually independent so far.

Other thoughts? I’ll try to remember to export some examples of before and after audio when I gather the strength to get back to it after hearing the murder of so many lyrics!

Alas, Cantai remains a toy and not a professional tool…hopefully soon!

133

my main issue with 3.0.2 is that low notes are frequently far too quiet, especially if the dynamic marking is p or pp to begin with. This is a noticeable retrograde step from the previous version which has in fact been confirmed by Support and a solution is being sought. Stability has not been that impressive either. If a patch doesn’t come out to fix this before I compose something new for voices, I’ll ask to go back to the previous release which in most respects was very decent. The Ottetto voices really are a game changer for chamber choral sacred music and Latin pronunciation is for the most part admirable.

134

I’ve been saving installers for this very reason. I had other issues with the previous version. It’s really interesting how they claim to have fixed all the reported issues yet several that I reported in v3.0.0 remain “unfixed.” Most are better but far from polished. It also fascinates me that each time it renders, the pronunciation can be a little different - sometimes better, sometimes worse.

One important key for all of us: do not attempt to play before rendering/re-rendering has completed. Not only does it skip what’s not yet rendered but it apparently causes poor rendering for everything…at least, in my experience.

135

I still have 3.0.0. Never tried 3.0.1 as it was released when I was away for much of August. If it doesn’t have the bugs of 3.0.2 (i.e. as described above) then it might be worth trying out.

136

Just got an email for Cantai 3.1.0 beta (yes, 3.1.0 not 3.0.1) — “Now singing on Intel Macs!”
[Edit — Note that this Beta test is for Intel Macs only! It won’t work with M-series (Silicon) chips!]

137

It’s good to see promises fulfilled (or at least on their way to being fulfilled via beta testing)!

138

I have Intel Macs from 2006 (Mac Pro & MacBook Pros), 2008 (Mac Pro), 2012 (many Mac Minis, 2 MacBook Air, and 1 MacBook Pro, two 2014 Mac Minis and one 2013 Mac Pro (trashcan) <<< NON can run Ventura …

It’s like the scene with Steve Martin in “The Jerk” when you find out what price you can win …

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Guess its back to MuseScore :man_shrugging:t4:

139

Bummer! That’s something they should have considered (being they are trying to do this for older – Intel – architecture)!
What OS(s) do you have? — Perhaps you should “join” the beta and express the OS problem to Richard! :wink:

140

@Daniel_Delgado I feel your pain. I have a tote full of old Apple laptops… Nevertheless, going back almost 10 years in terms of minimum OS for the Intel compatibility with Cantai is probably very reasonable. I suspect it has something to do with the oldest OS that the newest Apple Intel devices (2023 or older) could operate. Or something along those lines…but I could be wrong.

I would suggest considering updating to at least a used device that supports Ventura. I will say that the newer devices are very, very nice, though.

141

No doubt, the Intel Macs I had been using since 2012 had been great, aside from Mountain Lion, Yosemite, High Sierra and Catalina. I actually used my 2006 & 2008 MacPros and my 2007 MacBookPro computers running SNOW LEOPARD up until 2020 if you can believe. The only good OS after SL was Mojave and keep ALL of the 2012-2014 Macs frozen at Mojave since it was so stable. So, it’s not Cantai’s fault that only certain Intel chips can run it, same with Dorico which does not run well even on my 2013 Trashcan MP. Don’t think I’m wealthy or anything; I always kept my olders and have only purchased 2 new ones between 2008 and 2014. I always bought used Macs including the 2013 Trashcan MP which they’re “giving away” now for $300.

My 2013 Trashcan MP has 128GB of RAM and still struggles with Dorico and even VSL and OPUS nor Logic 11, much less 12!!! … no wonder Cantai skipped these machines.

I keep these to boot in SL and Mojave to use older apps, access my old Logic 8 & 9 projects as I’ve been slowly migrating them to Logic 12 and also, the UAD Powered stuff works flawlessly on the older Macs, but many of the plugins can not, so I use my Mac Pros as 1) RECORDING Machines; everything split to my MOTU Firewire interfaces and I can record each track at 96k … TWICE the fun and TWICE to headache! LOL 2) Mastering Machines.

If you leave em all up and ready to go, they’re useful and will last … well, as long as an Analog Console? My buddy still uses a Mackie Mixer into an ADAT recorder because its stable and he exports into Cubase!!!