Now I understand why I’m unfamiliar with it. I’ve been using Finale since…2007 I think.
I would argue that this is an umbrella term encompassing many different aspects of page layout (systems per page, staff and group spacing, casting off, optimization, margins, et al.). You’d need a specific term like measure layout to distinguish this one aspect if casting off were to be…cast off.
I can understand the temptation not to use typesetting terms that don’t seem obviously musical, but how would we musicians feel if engravers started calling sharp signs “pound signs” or “hashtags”; older-style pedal releases “fancy asterisks” or “stars”; staccato marks “dots” or “periods”, etc.? It seems to me that some meeting in the middle is to be expected.
9 Likes
A finale user from 1991–2022, that was definitely my experience too, @Tomas_E. I remember being confused at first when I switched to Dorico, which quickly gave way to annoyance that I had been “lied to” (
) and kept in the dark all those years.
FWIW, I’m grateful to be exposed to the professional terminology of typesetting. (Though if I had my druthers — and more money — I’d happily trade that knowledge for more time just to compose and pay someone else to engrave it — ha!)
3 Likes
Casting off. I thought this meant that recruitment for the fashion show was closed. 
4 Likes
Just a few more examples I had on hand, in case anyone stumbles upon this thread (or I need to reference these myself in the future):
Gould pg 487:
Boosey & Hawkes Style Guide, pg 12:
Michael Fowler, “Music Typesetting by Computer,” The Musical Times, pg 335, 1988.
4 Likes
I guess it has to do with the audience that Dorico is aiming at: those who feel comfortable with non-musical specialist terminology, or the others.
Ultimately it does not hurt folks to educate themselves to use the software and understand its terminology. If one does not understand something, one can always ask.
Initiative 101
4 Likes
You are right. “Page formatting” is too general. I think that “page layout” would be a better replacement for “casting off”.
Page Layout is already established and used as the domain of paper size, margins, staff size, et al. Casting off is clearly something more specific on the page. Perhaps a sub-division of Page Layout, but a part that needs its own name, nonetheless.
Presumably, the engraving industry came up with the term because there was no ready alternative that was as suitable or precise.
Even if I didn’t know what Casting Off was, once I found the heading in Layout Options, I would readily assume that that was the name that defines the activities under it.
1 Like
I was trained to “extract parts” not “cast off”. I have come to believe “cast off” is a typesetter’s term. It is jarring to the ear in my case.
As a non-native English speaker, this topic is quite amusing and interesting to follow. I was vaguely familiar with the term casting off (probably only knew it from Gould) but I find it easy to remember/associate it with what it entails (number of bars per staff, staves per page, pages per part). I needed some more time to get used to the word popover 
“Popover”? That’s easy…
5 Likes
Now that I’m thinking about chefs, just imagine what they’d make of Dorico’s slices…! I suppose the team would have to introduce dices (global and local, natch).
A bit like Clotted Cream, which which forms lumps when cooked in the pan.
I’ve never had the pleasure of eating a popover, though I’ve had plenty of Yorkshire puddings over the years, so perhaps that’s close enough.
We borrowed the term “popover” from Apple, even though a Dorico popover is a tiny bit different from what Apple’s designers mean by it:
4 Likes
That’s right. But if you’d called them bubbles or phylacteries, it wouldn’t have had the same impact.
1 Like
Those two terms are not interchangeable, and don’t refer at all to the same activity.
9 Likes
Better an Apple Popover™️ than an apple turnover, I suppose.
Okay, I’ve cooked up more than enough silliness for one day.
(Thank you for the history, @dspreadbury!)
1 Like
I’m assuming you’re coming from Finale? This was the Finale term back before Linked Parts where you had to Extract Parts to literally create a separate file. Extracting the Parts from the Score isn’t quite the same meaning as formatting them or doing the casting off. In any case, if this term is referenced anywhere other than in the context of working with Finale, I’d be curious to see it cited.
EDIT: Just remembered SCORE might have officially called it that too. My boss always called it “rippling” LOL as each page was its own file in SCORE to save on memory, so it had to “ripple” through the score pages to create a part.
I can’t cite a printed instance, but I do remember using the term "extracting parts"in the pen and ink days - long before Finale was on the scene.
1 Like