CC data lost after deleting duplicate instrument

I have a choir + organ project where I initially added a standard 3 staff organ with pedal but in the end didn’t use the pedal at all and wanted to replace the 3 staff organ with a 2 staff one. In theory, I thought I could just move the instrument from one to another but the formatting doesn’t seem to work. So instead, I was perfectly happy to just copy the music manually from one instrument to the other as shown in the attached score. This is fine – until I delete the original three staff instrument from the project. Then, mysteriously all the dynamic controller data is removed from the new 2 staff organ. Surely this is not supposed to occur or is there is something I am not understanding here? Perhaps others could also delete Organ 1 from the project and see what happens.


Te Deum controller data issue.dorico (2.4 MB)

Unless I’m very much mistaken, the CC1 and CC11 data is belonging to the Organ 1 instrument rather than Organ 2, so when you delete Organ 1, it will indeed be deleted.

I probably didn’t explain this too well, apologies.
Looking at CC11 where the initial adjustment was made, the level of this is indeed copied to organ 2, though the data points themselves are not. I’m not quite sure whether this is the currently expected behaviour (I would expect the actual data points to also be copied) but when organ 1 is removed, CC11 then resets to default, making the volume far too loud.
Is this clearer?

You’ve got your two organs playing back on the same endpoints, so the CC points from organ 1 will indeed be reflected in the CC editor for organ 2, but the CC points belong to organ 1, so when you delete organ 1, those points go away as well.

As for copying the CC data when you copy and paste the music, there’s a preference for that on the Note Input and Editing page of Preferences.

Ah, I see what’s happened. Organ 2 has taken the Endpoint from Organ 1. This doesn’t make much sense to me, though – a newly created instrument, even if a copy of an existing one, should logically to me get a new Endpoint based on the name of the instrument? That doesn’t seem to me to be how things work, though.

As to your point on CC data, the Preference is set to copy MIDI CC data – however, as I said before, although the levels are indeed copied, the actual data points are not. So is this operating as designed here?

No, not quite: the problem is that Dorico’s failing to map the streams of CC data from the independent voices in the first organ to the second when pasting. I’ll need to sort that out at some point. In the meantime, you can set the Key Editor to show multiple instruments, set each of the voices in Organ 1 to be the primary voice in turn, and the corresponding voice on Organ 2 to be the secondary voice, then sync the CC data from the primary voice to the secondary voice using the “sync track” button in the CC editor header on the left.

Could one continue to use the three-stave organ but manually hide the pedal staff throughout in order to avoid the current difficulties losing the controller data?

thanks, Daniel – that’s very helpful

this crossed my mind but I wanted to first try other approaches