CC to NRPN?

Can Cubase encode NRPN midi messages? If so, is there a particular procedure to get it to do so?

Hi,

Cunase can handle RPN and NRPN. What do you mean by “encode”?

NRPN is just dedicated cuple of MIDI CCs. By NRPN LSB you define the parameter you want to control and by NRP MSB you set the Value of the parameter. The vendor defined which parameter is assigned to which NRPN LSB.

Oh, great! I just saw the CC that appeared with the incoming NRPN, I didn’t really notice the NRPN LSB in parentheses.

Next question. When I try to automate more than one parameter of my Prophet 6, Cubase is putting all the data in the same CC DataEnt LSB; is there a way to get it to put it in a different CC DataEnt LSB?

The way it is makes it impossible to automate more than one parameter.

Hi,

I don’t know, what data Prophet 6 sends. But by the MIDI specification, it should always sends a pair od NRPNs (if there is any other in between). Like this:

  • NRPN LSB 1 = we will work with Parameter 1
  • NRPN MSB 1 = Value 1 (of the last set parameter, i.e. Parameter 1)
  • NRPN MSB 2 = Value 2 (of the last set parameter, i.e. Parameter 1)
  • NRPN LSB 2 = we will work with Parameter 2
  • NRPN MSB 1 = Value 1 (of the last set parameter, i.e. Parameter 2)
  • NRPN LSB 1 = we will work with Parameter 1
  • NRPN MSB 1 = Value 1 (of the last set parameter, i.e. Parameter 1)
  • NRPN LSB 2 = we will work with Parameter 2
  • NRPN MSB 1 = Value 1 (of the last set parameter, i.e. Parameter 2)
  • NRPN MSB 2= Value 2 (of the last set parameter, i.e. Parameter 2)
  • NRPN MSB 3 = Value 3 (of the last set parameter, i.e. Parameter 2)

Is it clear, now?

Could you check, what data is Prophet really sending via MIDI Monitor?

I’m sorry, (it’s likely not your fault) but that actually does not clear things up.

Did you know the maker of the Prophet is essentially the person who invented MIDI?

At any rate, I used the input monitor in MIDI OX and changed two parameters which resulted in the Midi OX screenshot. First I turned the filter cutoff knob just a little, which generated the first four lines, then I turned the resonance knob a little, which generated the rest.

I then repeated the above using MIDI Monitor to generate the Midi Monitor screenshot.
MIDI MONITOR INPUT.jpg
MIDI OX input.jpg

Hi I didn’t know this.

And as you can see, I was wrong. :neutral_face: There much more data. :slight_smile: Oh, I haven’t used NRPNs so long, sorry… :unamused:

OK, so these data are absolutely correct. Can you now send a screenshot from the List Editor, if you Record the data to Cubase, please?

List Editor.jpg
Same deal here, first the filter Cutoff, then the resonance, each turned just a little bit so as not to generate too much data.

All data are recorded in Cubase. I can see all 4 necessary MIDI CCs there.

So what is the issue, actually?

The automation is not controlling the separate parameters. Say I record the filter cutoff automation, then the resonance automation; when I play it back the two are combined into one automation lane controlling the filter cutoff.

Note that in both automations the DataEnt LSB corresponds to CC38.

By the “automation”, do you mean the automation track or the MIDI CCs events in the Key Editor?

I believe i’m beginning to understand what’s going on. To answer - I was referring to what you see in the CC controller lanes which you can edit from the key editor - but I believe that’s the same information that’s contained in the list editor. Whatever. I’m trying to get Cubase to cause the Prophet to reliably change a parameter - say wave shape, oscillation frequency, cut off frequency etc…

You have to record any parameter automation on it’s own track first of all, or else it simply writes over the prior automation, and somehow Cubase knows what parameter that track is referring to as long as you use a separate midi track. So, understanding this helps, but doesn’t solve all the problems. #1 there are four sets of data, and manipulating any of them affects what happens during playback, and I have no idea how they work and, hence, how to achieve any level of precise control when it comes to editing. it seems like the CC38 is the important one, but the others have an impact if you change them, and it would be good to know what they are doing. #2 I believe it encodes the starting point as where the knob is before movement, which won’t actually be the starting value unless I manually move the knob prior to automation. in other words, if I just call up a preset on the Prophet the knobs are not going to be at the same values as the preset has them at that moment. so i need to figure out what that value is and how it corresponds to the data Cubase encodes, or I just need to twist the knob then put it to where it sounds right prior to automation.

So I believe #2 is a surmountable problem, but #1 has me flummoxed.

Wait a second - I just did some more research. The NRPN lSB and MSB specify the parameter to be changed. So manipulating that would be counterproductive :slight_smile:

So, I experimented with the new information in mind. I just recorded a filter cutoff automation, starting from the correct spot. Worked fine on playback.

Then, I muted the midi track containing the filter cutoff automation, created a new midi track and automated the slop control, starting at none, then returning to none.

When I hit playback the slop automation worked, but the sound kept cutting out.

So I deleted the slop automation and tried automating white noise in and out. Same result.

Then again with the amp release, with the same result.

Apparently either Cubase doesn’t like 2 simultaneous NRPN automations or the Prophet doesn’t. I can say that if I play a chord and hold it with the sustain pedal and twist 2 knobs the prophet behaves as expected. i just can’t get Cubase to do it.

Alright. The source of the problem seems to be that Cubase just doesn’t deal with NRPN messages that well. It works fine as long as there is only one parameter being automated, and if I then switch to having the Prophet send CC for further automations it works fine. The good news is that not all parameters have a range of values beyond 1-127 and I don’t foresee a need to have that much extra automation going on.

thanks for your help, and if you have any clout with the developers you might mention this to them!

Cubase 9 can send RPN message with generic peripherique:

eg: Volume on track one : B0 65 00 (MSB) B0 64 40 (LSB) B0 06 64 (data entry MSB)

(Configure a peripherique generic, ope MIDI-OX and move the volume cursor)

My question is : is Cubase generic peripherique able to receive RPN, and if yes how to configure the octets

to send to the periphrique generic?

ARDUINO

Hi,

The equal messages written with the MIDI CCs is:

  • CC101; Value 0
  • CC100: Value 64
  • CC6: Value 100

Explanation:

  • B0 = MIDI CC Message
  • XX = MIDI CC Nr (in Hex)
  • YY = CC Value (in Hex)

Did anyone ever figure this out? I’ve just set the Prophet 6 to use CC in and out instead of NRPN because I couldn’t get it working with multiple parameters.

Also, if there’s any other useful info for hooking up the Prophet 6 that would be great (midi device info, etc).

Did anyone ever figure this out? I’ve just set the Prophet 6 to use CC in and out instead of NRPN because I couldn’t get it working with multiple parameters.

Also, if there’s any other useful info for hooking up the Prophet 6 that would be great (midi device info, etc).

Hi,

Are you sure you don’t filter out NRPN date on the output (Preferences > MIDI > MIDI Filter)?

I think it’s receiving it and sending it fine, the problem is it records every dial on the Prophet as like cc38 or something. But I’m going to need to control multiple parameters, ie both LFO and distortion at the same time, for example.