CC's to all midi channels?

Hello folks

Just building a new orchestral template with ewqlso, and trying a different way.
Using midi tracks, each track set to midi channel ‘All’, then in every instance of Play having each articulation set to a different midi channel - so ultimately I can have various articulations available within a single midi track just by changing the midi channel of the notes in question. Generally better for me as I could never get VST expression to work adequately.
Anyway, my problem is that when adding CC data, Expression (cc11) for example, the curves drawn always default to midi channel 1. So if I have switched, within the same track, from say a horn legato articulation on channel 1 to a horn expressive articulation on channel 2, and then add a CC curve on that second note, the curve will not be heard - because though the note is channel 2 the CC data is still on channel 1.
If I turn on the Info Line at the top of the Key Editor page, I can change the midi channel of a selected section of CC data - but this would prove VERY arduous in an elaborate project.
Is there no way that CC data can relate automatically to to whatever note is above it on the timeline, regardless of the notes midi channel, rather than being routed to a specific midi channel?
This is on Cubase 5.5.3 on Windows 7 (All 64 bit) by the way.
Thanks

Can’t be done directly by Cubase, but there are workarounds…
https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11264&p=73622#p73622

I couldn’t follow your post from start to end, but trying to guess what you are after:

  1. You want to have CC curves of different MIDI channels in the same MIDI/Instrument track
    Then just change the MIDI channel of your track before drawing the curve.

or

  1. You want to change MIDI channel of your CC data in the track dynamically (“on the fly”)
    Then insert “Transformer” MIDI plugin into the track. Create following transform scheme:
  • Type is - All types
  • Channel - Set to fixed value
    And automate on/off of this transformer to suite your needs
  1. You want something else, which I’m not understanding

Thanks for getting back to me folks.

I should indeed look into the whole bidule thing.

Jarno, I think your point number 1 is nearest to my issue.
I could indeed do that, but I just wondered if there was an easier way.
I mean, for example, if I had an oboe phrase of 7 notes, if all of those notes were on the same midi channel then I could just draw in a nice CC expression curve progressing through the whole 7 note phrase.
If each of those notes is on a different midi channel however, I would have to change the CC midi channel to accord with one note, then draw the curve; change the CC midi channel to accord with the next note, then draw that curve, etc.
Or I could draw curves that span the whole phrase, then subsequently select each chunk of the curve in turn and change the midi channel of the chunk to accord with the note that that part of the curve applies to.
Doing it in such a sporadic/fragmented way seems rather at odds with the idea of drawing a nice flowing CC11 line throughout a line to add organic expressivity.
It would be so much simpler if whatever CC11 curve your drew applied to WHATEVER note data was in the track, without having to worry about arduously matching midi channels.
Oh well. I think for my template I’ll just go back to my old, but rather cumbersome method of having each articulation on a seperate midi track.

In the case you describe, why not simply automate the audio output?

Edit: Sorry… the following doesn’t apply… I was forgetting this is still in Cubase 5, not Cubase 6. Anyways, I won’t delete it, in case it will be of use to anyone with Cubase 6…

For what you are wanting to do, there is a way… using Note Expression, but you’d have to record everything (including note-ons) on the same MIDI channel first (e.g; ch#1). The CC# data gets recorded into the note event. So if you then change the MIDI channel, the CC# data gets channelized along with it (I’ve just tried, and it does work :slight_smile: )

Sorry. I know NOTHING about VST expression … so I would understand more even if you talked about quantum wells or Wien–Planck law :wink: But I DO know a LOT about MIDI. Used to write my own (experimental) MIDI software back in early '90s.

It may sound simple … but it’s not!

  1. What if you have 2 notes on the different channels at the same time? For which your CC data belongs to?
  2. You have 2 notes one after another in different channels. You want your CC data to cotrol release-phase of the first one … but WHOOPS … CC data just got grabbed into channel of the second note.
    3,4,5… Just take time and figure out yourself what other problems this kind of behaviour would create.

Edit: Once again… sorry, I forgot this was Cubase 5 not 6. Anyways, I won’t delete this either, in case it will be of use to anyone with Cubase 6…

… I’ve found the way to do it! (well… sort of :wink: )…
(first, is the following assumption correct?)…
For you to be hearing the various articulations, that MIDI track is currently set to MIDI ch # “Any”?
If so (and, although there’s probably a logical reason for it, I don’t at the moment see why the next step should be necessary… but it is :wink: )…

  1. In the Project window, change the MIDI track’s channel from “Any” to “1” (although it will probably work if you set it to anything other than “Any”)
  2. Back in the Key Editor, draw your CC# curves (unfortunately, that still means that all the notes will be playing back on ch#1 for now)
  3. MIDI Menu>Note Expression>“Convert to Note Expression”
  4. Back in the project window, set the MIDI channel back to “Any”
  5. Done :wink:.

Hehe - yep, Cubase 5 I’m afraid Vic.

Ah well, nevermind.

I just wanted to find a way to build an orchestral template without resorting to the ‘One articulation per midi track’ method - which means about 150 tracks - and 150 staves in the score editor.

Thanks anyway chaps!

So, all the more reason to simply automate instead the audio output from the VSTi :wink:.

I’m a big ignorant buffoon I’m afraid Vic! :frowning:
I don’t work in audio at all - in fact my only audio is the final stereo mixdown. So I’ve never really got into the whole automating audio side of things.
I work pretty much exclusively in midi, mixing/balancing/dynamics and everything , and do all my writing/orchestration in the score editor.
I’m sure I’ll sus it all out one day and find more logical ways of doing things!

Thanks!

So you really don’t want to be loading up the various articulations into separate MIDI tracks (staves) :wink:

Gleaning from what you have written so far, it would seem your best solution is the one you suggested secondly…

Or I could draw curves that span the whole phrase, then subsequently select each chunk of the curve in turn and change the midi channel of the chunk to accord with the note that that part of the curve applies to.

At least Cubase can help you a little there, in the Key Editor… you can activate the “Auto Select Controllers” button in the extended toolbar, then select the desired note event (but unfortunately you can’t do that for notes that are not consecutive).