Hello! Is it possible to center all articulations on the stem (when on stem-side of note)? In Engraving Options > Articulations > Horizontal Position, the only articulation I can specify this way is staccato. I also want to center Accent, Marcato, Tenuto, etc…
EDIT: apologies for my strident “good” and “bad” labeling; I was just trying to clearly communicate my personal preference. I understand this is NOT the convention in other (and frankly, most) notation styles!
Never seen “wide” articulations like those and others like the tenuto mark centered on the stems; only staccato and marcato strokes . It would be considered non-standard by Gould, Ross etc. and I can see why Dorico wouldn’t support it. In what style have you seen this?
Thanks for the reply; I can’t point to a specific reference book. I’m basing this on past experiences of other copyists I’ve worked for/with, some “in-house” styles I’ve had to duplicate, and frankly, personal preference.
I even prefer the staccato dot centered over the note head on the stem side, so you can see where I am coming from. Pretty sure that what you have seen is non-standard. I can envision issues with articulation marks not lining up in a double-staffed instrument when some are over the note heads and some over the stems. That might be part of the reason why one doesn’t see this in engraved music from well-known publishers. When I have time I am going to look through some older published music at IMSLP to see if this has ever been done in the past.
No, I don’t think there’s a way to move articulations along the horizontal.
I can’t find a single style guide or notation manual that explicitly calls for articulations (other than staccato) being centred on the stem.
However, while Clinton Roemer writes that accents should be “Over/Under the note”; his examples do look centred on the stem, and that’s probably where the tradition comes from. (@FredGUnn will have thoughts.)
“…Is there anything that we all agree on in notation? It’s a wonder anyone can read it at all!”
Eh, not a fan of that style myself, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it prescribed in any notation guides for engraved music, but it’s common enough in hand copied music. Kendor follows that convention in all their Thad Jones charts (although some of the positioning variance here just looks like sloppiness):
Hi all - thanks for the replies: You’ve figured me out: my preference for this style comes from working on jazz big band charts, specifically for Kendor. @FredGUnn, it’s common not only in their hand-copied charts, but also many software (Finale) charts too.
@John_Ruggero, I appreciate your attention here; however, I doubt much on IMSLP will show this style. I know it primarily from jazz big band charts.
@benwiggy, it sounds like the final word is that there isn’t a way to adjust articulations horizontally (except staccato). I’ve used Playing Techniques to create an alternate set of articulation marks that align a bit to the right (for stem-side use). This achieves my desired result, but it’s a very slow workflow, and a huge step backward from what I’m used to in Finale. (Apologies for the constant comparisons; Finale is the world I know, but I’m earnestly exploring and trying to adapt to Dorico. Thanks for bearing with me!)
This is a feature that would allow further control over the appearance of our music, regardless whether the style is prescribed in any reference manuals. I’d love to see Dorico include it as a feature. (Because it’s already available for staccato, it seems not too far a reach to implement it for the others. But, I’m not a software developer so I make no demands!)
I’m sure the developers will put this on the list.
In the meantime, using Playing Techniques does seem like the workaround. It should be possible to do something like create a script that moves all selected PTs by a set distance, which might speed things up.
Dorico is surprisingly flexible, and people here come up with all kinds of inventive solutions for things. Though it’s true that some things just aren’t possible until they’re implemented. But then – Oh Boy!
I’m interested in the history of music notation and wouldn’t be surprised to see this in quite different styles of the past, since it is a very natural thing to happen in hand copying.
@mikepintoguitar Interim report. I am seeing great variety in positioning of accent marks in both hand copying and engraving during the 19th-20th centuries. It is possible that it was actually more common to see these indications centered on the stem than on the note head up until about 1920.
The early > accent actually originated as a short diminuendo hairpin and tended to be a bit wider than a note head, so it tended to overlap the stem when placed on the stem side, even when an attempt was made to line it up with the start of the note head.
I think that a good case can be made for options to center the various articulations as the user sees fit.
Looking at your example, could you explain what the difference between those articulations/accents mean musically or what they mean for the player?
a) ^
b) >
No, the marcato accents are typically short but fat accents in jazz. Here’s this actual passage, where you can hear the quarters with the marcatos are played short.
“Short but fat” thanks a lot! I know Jazzers have brilliant ears, I am struggling and would need a further hint, is this the tenor sax part? just guessing… actually it looks like a bass clef part may be one of the trombones…
[edit] figured it out - not by listening - but checking a score: it’s the alto sax 3 part - E-Major key signature. These middle voices are a real challenge
Great tune I’ve played it often with big bands. Until now I never actually realised the off set accents, thanks for pointing it out (now my OCD is going into overdrive lol).
may be one of the trombones…