Hello,
Can we change the inter-system-gap space manually for all in “engrave mode”? to have directly in realtime visual result.
You can change it in Layout Options within any mode. Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-L > Vertical Spacing > Ideal Gaps > Inter-system Gap.
Hi. Not sure about what you’re asking for. If it’s a way to input the same numerical value for all inter staff gaps in one step, there’s no way to do it. But you could use concertina drag (keep alt/opt pressed while you drag the top staff downwards). But I wouldn’t.
You’d better try inter system ideal (minimal) gaps in Layout options > Vertical spacing. This is what “apply” is there for. You try some values and adjust them until you’re happy.
Note that vertical justification does interfere a lot in this operation. It’s up to you to keep it or not.
[Edit] Leo is faster than me…
Hello,
Till now I used the Layout Options > Vertical Spacing that open a windows that we allways must move to see the results, and as I remembered, one day I was using another notation program that did this with mouse and drag?!
Thanks to both for the answer that helps me:!
@MarcLarcher
If it’s a way to input the same numerical value for all inter staff gaps in one step, there’s no way to do it
@pianoleo (good to know this shortcut)
Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-L``
I’m concerned by
It sounds like you find that a chore. If you’re actually grabbing the top of the window and dragging it, I can see how that would be irritating (particularly on a smaller screen).
As far as I can tell, Dorico windows (including Layout Options) respond to the same window-switching shortcuts as most other applications. On my mac, that’s Cmd-` to put Layout Options behind the main window, then type it again to bring Layout Options forward again. I’m not sure whether Windows can do this natively (apart from Alt-Tab, which scrolls round different programs) but there are various third-party programs that can help, such as https://neosmart.net/EasySwitch/#:~:text=Easy%20Window%20Switcher%20makes%20switching,only%20a%20alt%20%2B%20`%20away!
The thing to remember about moving staves manually (dragging them around) in Dorico is those overrides to the default vertical position/spacing of staves are locked to the page. If you later insert e.g. a title page at the start of the layout, it’s very likely that all your staves will reset to their default positions. (Sometimes staff spacing offsets can be retained when staves match on adjacent pages but most of the time the offsets will be deleted, so it’s safest to assume they will.)
Getting the right combination of page size, staff size, margins, and staff spacing in Layout Options will produce the most stable (and reproducible) results. It goes along with the Dorico philosophy, where although getting your default settings as close to what you want (or covering the majority of cases) and then doing the smallest amount of local, graphical tweaking required can feel like a bigger investment at the start, this approach absolutely pays off in the long run.
On a small screen and when I don’t have a 2nd screen to put the Layout Options dialog on, I sometimes move the dialog so that just enough of it is visible (the value field I’m changing and the Apply button) with similarly enough of the music area to see the result.
1 Like
Hello,
Thanks again
The discussion changed direction a bit compared to the original question and after analyzing these exchanges, I found my discomfort.
And this is a really small point relatively unimportant at the stage of development of this superb software.
But the fact of having been able to point out exactly my discomfort, will allow me to work differently
Blockquote
dup: we allways must move to see the results
@pianoleo
If you’re actually grabbing the top of the window and dragging it, I can see how that would be irritating (particularly on a smaller screen).
@Lillie_Harris
On a small screen and when I don’t have a 2nd screen to put the Layout Options dialog on, I sometimes move the dialog so that just enough of it is visible (the value field I’m changing and the Apply button) with similarly enough of the music area to see the result.
Sometimes we do things so out of habit in software, that when we use another software, sometimes there are things and gestures that disturb us and also that we have the impression that we have never had to do so many times certain manipulations!
Through your answers, I explored this question in depth and believe I have found the answer to this feeling of often repeating the same gestures.
Actually, I do exactly like you, but maybe I’m working on a lot more small projects (for my students) in a short time so I open a lot of files in a short time! Finally after analysis, I noticed that Dorico does not memorize the positions and sizes of the windows when we open another project or when we close the program and reopen it. So much so that when you open the Layout option page (or other windows)it is always back to the center and I have to move it each time.
In my other Wavelab, Cubase, … or even Firefox programs when I move and resize an open window, once the program is closed and then reopened, the window we call reopens in the same position and dimension that we left
best regards
Dorico 3.5 does remember the sizes and positions of every dialog you open. It also remembers the size and position of each project window you open. Projects and dialogs do use different mechanisms, but both are retained and restored.
Hello,
@dspreadbury
Maybe i don’t understand ?!
I tried on two computer W7 and W10 with Dorico 3.5.11.1054
1.I open a project “A” and do “Ctrl+shift+L” I obtain:
2.change the position and size of this popup windows:
- I save the project and open another project and do “Ctrl+shift+L” or
- I open the project “A” saved in 2 and do “Ctrl+shift+L”.
I re- obtain the same result as in 1.:
Size and position not stored for me like in Cubase,wavelab,…
Are we talking about the same thing
best regards
Yes, we are talking about the same thing. I can only assume that for some reason the saving of those window positions is failing on your computer for some reason. The data is saved in the Windows Registry, though I can’t recall immediately off the top of my head the name of the key where it is saved.
Hello,
Thanks for your time and answer…but…
In order to be clear about it, I installed Dorico on a third computer (w10): I obtained the same result as on my previous example and pictures!
As long as I am working on the same open project, the position and dimension of a transformed window is maintained but as soon as I close this project and reopen it the open window reverts to its initial default state.
Blockquote
The data is saved in the Windows Registry, though I can’t recall immediately off the top of my head the name of the key where it is saved.
I have not been able to find the registry key to see when it is being written or rewritten. Does anyone know her?
best regards
I’m trying to adjust the system defaults for inter-system spacing and I’m confused about one thing.
I have the unit of measurement on my system set for inches.
in engraving mode if I toggle to the adjust vertical spacing view, I see the inter-system spacing displayed in fractions of inches.
But in the layout dialogue the unit of measure is “spaces” …
Is the method of trying to change the spacing just a trial and error process?
Second question, is there a way to set the inches display on the vertical spacing in Engrave mode to be to two decimal points instead of one? I’ve discovered the hard way that when you see .7" as the space between systems it can be anywhere from .651" to .749" – a huge range …
I just can’t have millimeters as my unit of measurement set as a global property – I work in the imperial system for everything to do with margins and other spacing.
And, I haven’t discovered a way to set a precise/custom number/measure to affect every system in a specific flow … say .725" in any other way than moving every single handle, and/or typing that exact measure into the dialog box.
Is there any solution for this?? I very often need to do custom spacing on staves on flows in a single document and find the process to be cumbersome and error prone – not to mention the problem that if anything changes elsewhere in the document the system spacing defaults back to square one and has to be adjusted again.
Of course I try to make this the last thing I do, but flow order evolves over the course of development of the folios I create so this is a very time-consuming part of the work.
One idea: I set my preferred unit to points (72/inch), which gives me fine sizing control in integer amounts.
My favorite unit (or grid spacing, if that feature ever happens) would be picas (6/inch), so for that I’ve learned to think in multiples of 12 points.
The thing about the staff space as a unit is it’s relative to the staff size, so it’s more relevant to many of the settings and measurements than an absolute unit such as inches.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the tip. I’ve kind of given up on this … I think I’m too old to learn how to think of margins and other spacing things in points and picas. I know that is the preferred unit of measurement for layout and print, but I just never learned it that way. toggling back and forth between different units of measurements every time I want to adjust something seems equally time consuming.
So … I’m just coming around to the fact that this is an intractable issue that I’m just going to have to deal with manually every. single. time. There don’t seem to be options for setting custom system spacing in engraving mode, or for individual flows, so it’s just going to have to be a human process that gets done over and over again as the charts evolve.
Also, can someone tell me how to get rid of the bloody thing at the end of the system (in engraving mode) that says what percentage of the system is full?
Hello again.
System spacing is controlled by Layout Options>Vertical Spacing (There are probably hundreds of threads on how to manage this to best effect).
Hi Janus,
I know that staff spacing is controlled in layout. I am asking about fine-grained control of vertical spacing for individual flows not for global spacing in a file. manual staff adjustment is something that, for all of it’s flaws as an engraving program overall, was pretty easy in Sibelius. There were options for “optomizing staves” in a vertical space, and several different ways to manage different kinds of vertical spacing.
I understand that this is not the way that Dorico works. Dorico promises very fine-grained control over pretty much every single aspect of score engraving. This clearly makes it better than any other product on the market.
The downside is that how to actually control these elements can be maddeningly opaque. I know 100% percent that I am not the only user who has had this experience in trying to understand the finer points (and sometimes even basic points) of how to use this program.
Again, I would ask that you not question why I want to do something. If you have some suggestions on how I can do the thing I need to do I’m all ears.
Thanks, JW.
Why do you want to hide the system fill % indicator?
Janus, If you’re not going to be helpful, then can you please stop responding to my posts? JW
I have, in all sincerity, tried to be helpful, and will continue to do so.
Yes, regardless of your unit of measurement in Preferences, some values are always expressed in spaces. This is for things that relate back to the size of the staff.
In general, hopefully you shouldn’t need to move individual staves and systems vertically too much, if you’ve adjusted your vertical spacing settings as needed for the layout.
However, as you say, these are set per-layout and not per-flow, so if you have some flows in the same layout that need significantly different spacing values, that can get tricky (although setting the values on the lower end of what you need, and using system/frame breaks and vertical justification for the flows that need more generous spacing should still allow you to achieve a good result).
If you want exactly consistent spacing of systems, ignoring notations that protrude above/below, there’s an option for that: you can disable vertical collision avoidance in each layout; disabling this in a single-staff-per-system part layout, for example, means all systems are exactly evenly spaced.
This is called the system fullness indicator, and as of Dorico 4.3, it’s shown in Engrave mode in more circumstances (it used to appear only when the Note Spacing tool was selected). It doesn’t appear when Frames or Graphic Slices is selected in the Engrave toolbox. However, there isn’t a way to turn it off when the other tools (Graphic Editing, Staff Spacing, and Note Spacing) are selected, apart from when you’re holding down the “Hide Invisibles” key command.