Chord definitions and suffixes - From a Finale perspective

Can you post an image of what you want it to look like? If I set Finale Jazz as my Default Music Font, Finale Jazz Text as my Default Music Text Font, then confirm the various Chord Symbol fonts have the correct parent fonts without overrides, I’m getting this with my settings and no adjustments at all:

The 7s look to be 100% to me. Tiny triangles are another issue, but one I would think could be globally fixed with a doricolib file so you never have to bother with them again. If you post an image, I’ll see what might be possible.

I’ve selected Jazz Text Lowercase as the Default Music Text Font -
So chord symbols inherit that setting?
I see an option in Font Styles for Chord Symbols Music Text Font.
I tried changing that to the regular Jazz Text font (by activating the Font Family field, bypassing the inherited behavior that uses the Default Text Font). Having done that, the flat symbols disappeared - Bb7 became B, and the 7’s stayed tiny…
Then I tried making the Default Text Font Finale Jazz Text, and there was no change… nothing updated in the score.
I did have some old modifications in the Chord Symbol editor, but deleted all those (or at least I though I did… they’re gone from the list in the editor)
Here’s what happened when I changed the Default Chord Symbol Text Font to Finale Jazz Text:

That’s supposed to be Bb and Db…

I found another thing impacting the display of the 7… I had set it to superscript in Engraving Options>Chord Symbols>Interval… but it still doesn’t look like yours.
I’m hoping to find a way to control the font size for the “Interval” property (which afaict means the 7th in this case)
The problem I’m having is figuring out the order of operations in trying to get the result I’m after. I suspect the Chord Symbol editor is the last stop to make.

Well, let’s see !



I think I’ll be sticking with Finale Jazz for iPad stuff… bolder all around

It’s most definitely not, and likely won’t ever be, at least not officially, as development has ceased. It is licensed under the SIL Open Font License so one could bring it up to spec for Dorico, give it a new name, and provide it for free.

Dorico wants Font Styles / Chord Symbols Font to be a “normal” text font that can be used to set text in any application (it inherits the Default Text Font style by default), but Font Styles / Chord Symbols Music Text Font needs to be a SMuFL font that contains the Standard Accidentals for Chord Symbols SMuFL range. It inherits Default Music Text Font by default, which is Bravura Text in the factory defaults.

If you open up the glyphs.xml file after clicking Show Package Contents on the Dorico app, you can see the exact locations in the font that Dorico is looking for various elements:

For something like a Bb7, the B is controlled by the Chord Symbols Font, the flat is controlled by the Chord Symbols Music Text Font, and the 7 is controlled by the Chord Symbols Font. We know from the above glyphs.xml file (and the SMuFL site) that Dorico is expecting the flat to appear at the U+ED60 location in the font. If I open Finale Jazz Text, I can see that it has very few glyphs at all (347) and doesn’t contain anything at U+ED60, U+F4DC, or any flat at all. So Finale Jazz Text is completely unusable at all with Dorico as the Chord Symbols Music Text Font as currently designed.

Finale Jazz is a little more comprehensive at 719 glyphs, but still is just a small subset of glyphs when compared to Bravura at 3,693. Here’s where I’m a little confused about what’s happening … Finale Jazz is also missing U+ED60 and U+F4DC. It does have the standard flat at U+E260. I’m guessing that Dorico is smart enough to look for and substitute the standard flat if it doesn’t find the correct chord symbol flat in the font.

There is an undocumented split point at 75/76% where Dorico will use the “small” variant of the chord symbol accidental for 75% and lower. This works ok with a flat in Finale Jazz, but it does not work with a sharp! Since Finale Jazz is missing that csymAccidentalSharpSmall glyph at U+F4DE, wherever Dorico is expecting to find an alternate isn’t working here, so a natural gets substituted instead. Gif below:
natural

I guess that’s a lot of words to say Finale Jazz isn’t really compatible, LOL! Someone should probably add the missing glyphs in the the Standard Accidentals for Chord Symbols range including small variants at F4DC, F4DD, and F4DE, for this font to work correctly with Dorico.

For your triangle issue, this doricolib file just redefines it to be 150%, but you can modify it as needed. Just unzip it and add the file to your DefaultLibraryAdditions folder and any file created from File / New will automatically have the triangle scaled for all roots. You can bring it into an existing file with the Library Manager.
triangle.doricolib.zip (991 Bytes)

doricolib code
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<kScoreLibrary>
	<compositeDefinitions>
		<entities array="true">
			<CompositeDefinition>
				<name>csymMajorSeventh.maj7</name>
				<entityID>comp.csymMajorSeventh.maj7</entityID>
				<parentEntityID/>
				<inheritanceMask>0</inheritanceMask>
				<category>kChordSymbols</category>
				<components array="true">
					<component>
						<componentId>glyph.csymMajorSeventh.maj7</componentId>
						<componentType>kGlyph</componentType>
						<xOffset>0</xOffset>
						<yOffset>0</yOffset>
						<xScale>150.000000</xScale>
						<yScale>150.000000</yScale>
						<zOrder>0</zOrder>
						<maxOpticalScale>100</maxOpticalScale>
						<componentInstance>0</componentInstance>
						<colour>kDefault</colour>
					</component>
				</components>
				<relativeAttachments array="true"/>
				<scalingRules array="true"/>
			</CompositeDefinition>
			<CompositeDefinition>
				<name>csymMajorSeventh.major</name>
				<entityID>comp.csymMajorSeventh.major</entityID>
				<parentEntityID/>
				<inheritanceMask>0</inheritanceMask>
				<category>kChordSymbols</category>
				<components array="true">
					<component>
						<componentId>glyph.csymMajorSeventh.major</componentId>
						<componentType>kGlyph</componentType>
						<xOffset>0</xOffset>
						<yOffset>0</yOffset>
						<xScale>150.000000</xScale>
						<yScale>150.000000</yScale>
						<zOrder>0</zOrder>
						<maxOpticalScale>100</maxOpticalScale>
						<componentInstance>0</componentInstance>
						<colour>kDefault</colour>
					</component>
				</components>
				<relativeAttachments array="true"/>
				<scalingRules array="true"/>
			</CompositeDefinition>
		</entities>
	</compositeDefinitions>
</kScoreLibrary>
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Unusable, I’m deducing. Wow, this is a freaking doctoral dissertation, but really helps. I’m hoping now to find somebody willing to undertake a fork of Finale Jazz Font… there’s some serious geeks hanging out over in Finale Scripts and Macros and Finale Lua on FB.
Thanks for posting the triange.doricolib file… I’ll be deploying it!
So the bottom line on the scaling question would be to keep it 76% and higher?

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Ugh, typo, I’ll edit and fix it. Yeah, I think scaling needs to be 76% and up to avoid that glyph substitution. Finale Jazz only has 1/5 of the number of glyphs that Bravura has, and 1/2 the number Petaluma has. There’s all sorts of stuff missing, but the Standard Accidentals for Chord Symbols range really should be completed in both Finale Jazz and Finale Jazz Text for these to be compatible with Dorico.

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I think I see how to substitute for missing sharps - Setting the Default Music Text Font to “Dynamic Music Text Font,” family Bravura, appears to allow Dorico to substitute Bravura fonts for the ones it can’t find in Finale Jazz, Jazz Text etc

Sorry, I’m not quite following you there. The Dynamic Music Text Font affects all the dynamics. If you change that to Bravura, won’t it destroy the hand copying illusion? (to the extent that it exists … )

Norfonts makes some excellent handwritten style fonts as well. I’ll tag @NorFonts so he can say for sure, but I would assume they are fairly comprehensive for jazz work and contain all the necessary glyphs for chord symbols. One of his fonts could be an option too.

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It’s like a game of whack-a-mole. I’ve lost track of what option is doing what.
I’ll check out that font family. I had another suggestion that Finale Broadway was a more complete set… I’ll check that out as well.
I’m not too fond of Petaluma or Golden Age… too thin.

Nope, it only has 432 glyphs, so fewer than the 719 of Finale Jazz. I think all the MM fonts are missing the “Standard Accidentals for Chord Symbols” SMuFL range though, so there are definitely issues with using them. (I tried posting in that FB group where you tagged me, but all the posts are still “pending” as I assume I need approval as a new member.)

These look great, and given the time thrashing around with MM fonts, worth it. Gonna do it.

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He’s really active here too. I’m sure if you find something that isn’t compatible for some reason, he would straighten it out.

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Looks good. I got rid of all overrides in the Chord Symbol dialog. One catch, changing existing fonts didn’t catch everything. The default Text font has to be Blue Note Alpha…


He includes several doricolib files with the installation package, but there’s no hint what to do with em.

I’m not sure what settings he includes as doricolib files, but they typically go in Users[username]\AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\Dorico 5\DefaultLibraryAdditions on Windows or Users/[username]/Library/Application Support/Steinberg/Dorico 5/DefaultLibraryAdditions on Mac. If the folder doesn’t exist already, you can go ahead and create it. I probably mentioned this earlier in the thread, but doricolib settings will only apply to files created from File / New, so you’ll need to use the Library Manager to bring those settings into an existing file.

Thanks for that ! I’m in touch with him via email, I’ll report back. So far, they’re looking good. AFAICT, when switching fonts on a live document, you got to do the text variant separately…

Hi Jon,

The best way to do this would be to import one of my .doricolib files into your current score. These are library files that replace everything with BlueNotes if something is missing when you switch from the change music font menu.

To import a .doricolib file into your score, go to: Library > Library Manager > drag and drop one of the BlueNotes .doricolib files there.

From the list on the left, consider checking everything, but then uncheck the layout options to preserve your current score layout.

Click OK, and that’s it.

Best,
–Nordine.

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Great! Thanks so much. The fonts look terrific! So much easier than thrashing around with Finale Jazz…! Well worth the investment. Highly recommended…!

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Thanks a bunch, Jon! I’d really appreciate it if you could leave a review from this link: BlueNotes (SMUFL) Fonts – NorFonts.ma

Sent you an e about this… not seeing a way to do it on the site (yet)

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I made a few small changes to the Finale Jazz font. I fixed some chord accidentals that were looking a bit off and only changed the appearance of the parentheses in Finale Jazz Text. What do you think?

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