Click drift out of time

[vudoo]

Imported an audio file…for example sake, let say Chaka Khan Ain’t Nobody. Tempo is 104, song was tracked to a click. Line up the kick snare…it plays in time with the click for a while but eventually drift out of time. Strange, i mean i’ve done this hundreds of time before and it worked fine. Now I can’t figure out why it doesn’t work.

I checked to make sure there’s no tempo changes, sample rate of file and Cubase session are the same.

Anyone ?

[Igro]

Maybe the answer is at the end of this thread (in short - the culprit is an outdated audio engine)

Rendered in place track doesn't null

No, I checked that. The problem is not with the rendered files. I can make two renders from Groove Agent SE (not the render from the render) and those renders will null to each other. But they will never null with the Raw GrooveAvent, because it slightly drifts in time for unknown reason. Those non-null hits will be at random points. Just loop the last project I did. It does show this everything But situation is even worse than that. You can you SamplerTrack. And it will drift in time too. Make…

“Finally, the Steinberg support answered to this. And yeah, I was right, the issue was real (I’m not sure how did you do your test to not find it….):

“We have reviewed the behavior together with the development team.
The developers were already aware of this behavior, and your tests confirm the current internal understanding.
More specifically:

• during playback, a minimal jitter of approximately 1–2 samples may occur;

• the file generated via Render in Place / Export can be delayed by 1 sample compared to HALion Sonic 7 and Groove Agent 6 SE playback;

• if you move the rendered file 1–2 samples earlier and perform a null test (phase inversion), the signal becomes silent.

This behavior is related to the architecture of the audio engine and its internal rendering process. Since the effect can only be detected through a null test and is not perceptible in a real-world or musical listening context, a corrective intervention is currently not considered appropriate.”

[Igro]

And another one:

C15 (BUG): Audio samples "drifting/timing issue in the arranger window

Hi! While working with samples and the Sampler, I found that the identical samples that were dropped into the arranger directly will have some micro desynchronization at random points. I made a short 2-tracks project where the same sample has been used in the sampler and the other directly in the arranger, made the same volume and inverted one of the tracks. Listen to the loop for like 4-5 times. The first or second loop playing might be ok ( silence), then you will hear those “bursts” poping a…

[Igro]

The main point - Steinberg won’t fix it.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Do you think the audio engine outdated itself recently, after it worked hundres of times before as per OP? That doesn’t seem to fit.
I have a hunch in the case of this topic something else is the cause.

[Igro]

Maybe. I don’t deny it. I’m already getting shivers from the word “drift” when is comes to Cubase 15. I wish it was only related to the latest C15. The OP forgot to mention his Cubase version.

[vudoo]

I’m on version 14. Actually, in my case I simply think it’s related to the audio file itself. Basically, I had to learn a bunch of songs for a show. So I export all the songs from Tidal in 44.1 Khz/16 bit and import each of them in a separate Cubase session. I then figure out the tempo and set a click.

What I notice is exactly as explained, most of the older pop /R&B songs for example, Ain’t Nobody, Wanna Statin Something, etc. will drift in time with the click, the more recent ones will maintain its timing with the click fine.

[KHS]

Have you ever considered that those songs isn’t using a fixed tempo throughout the whole song?

Using micro tempo changes is a well known trick used by songwriters and producers to help the song progression if it’s needed. these micro tempo changes could sometimes be just 1-2 BPM and other times as much as 5-6 BPM depending on the tempo and the genre.

[vudoo]

The songs i mentioned were cut to a drum machine / click, one tempo, confirmed by the actual drummers who did those session.

[KHS]

I see. I don’t know these songs but just google one of them and saw they are from the early 80’s.

That likely means there was a tape machine involved somewhere in the production (at least for the mastering) No tape machine are 100% speed accurate. These old songs were likely stored on a master tape and then later converted to digital.

Obviously I’m just guessing here, but it makes perfect sense as you say that newer songs doesn’t have this tempo drift, likely because they were produced digital.

[Reco29]

@vudoo

What I notice is exactly as explained, most of the older pop /R&B songs for example, Ain’t Nobody, Wanna Statin Something, etc. will drift in time with the click, the more recent ones will maintain its timing with the click fine.

Early on, you already identified the culprit all by yourself. Older songs usually have variations in tempo for all sort of reasons. That’s just the way it is.

You need proof - easy:
Open an empty project and set your tempo to whatever you have in mind and set locators to cover a range of approx. 3 to 5 minutes. Go to Project/Signature Track/ Render Click between Locators and export the newly created track. Don’t forget to include the bpm in its name.

Close Cubase and open a new project. Import the track and try to get a drift. You won’t get one. You’ll see, there’s absolutly nothing wrong with Cubase. It’s just the way recordings were made back in the day.