combined dynamics

[cparmerlee]

@wolframd

The standard meaning of a fp always is kind of a dolce accent,

I would agree with that in classical music. You might think of this as an “agogic accent” or “breath attack” (for wind players).

But it is quite different in pop music, particularly if we are talking horn sections. In that case, it is usually a very hard attack and an immediate drop to practically nothing. This is especially true if the fp is followed by a crescendo. In that case, it usually means to exaggerate the dynamics as much as (tastefully) possible.

[steveparker]

Even writing pop horn parts, I make a distinction between sfp or sfzp and fp. I would not want an accent on fp.

[prko]

I missed the followings:
mfp
mp-pp
sfp
sfzp
pf

etc.

mf-pp, mp-pp etc

[wolframd]

@cparmerlee

But it is quite different in pop music,

Yes, I agree. I am often too focused to classical music…

[Derrek]

@cparmerlee

But it is quite different in pop music, particularly if we are talking horn sections. In that case, it is usually a very hard attack and an immediate drop to practically nothing. This is especially true if the fp is followed by a crescendo. In that case, it usually means to exaggerate the dynamics as much as (tastefully) possible.

That isn’t an exclusively pop interpretation. It’s exactly the way classical trumpet players would interpret it and have for decades.

[Cresny]

I came up with a useful work around:

Create 2 dynamics on different notes: shift-D: type “1x p”, and “2x mp” for example.
Drag them both to the same note.
Dorico will put the longer one on top, so add spaces to the “prefix” property until it’s longer than the 2nd time dynamic. It’s important to do this through properties and NOT text input, where Dorico will remove spaces after input.
Voila!

[Andro]

@Cresny I know this is an old thread, but I am bemoaning the lack of ability using combined dynamics to make pp/p, as use in modernist scores by my colleague. [Let’s leave interpretation of what it means out of it for now.]

This workaround is brilliant, thank you. Not only that, in engrave mod I can move the dynamics to be on the same level. It’s not exactly ideal or perfect, but it’s pretty good.

[Feature Request] So Dorico folks, can we somehow add concepts like pp/p to the combined dynamics, or let the use enter entities like this somehow.

[dspreadbury]

It’s something we know our users would like, and it’s on our backlog for implementation at some point in the future.

[david-p]

@Rob_Tuley

Suppose “fp” is written on a note with a duration of say 2 seconds, played by an instrument which can do arbitrary changes of dynamics during a continuous note. When does the “p” apply? Is there a supposed to be a sudden step change from f to p at some point (and which point in time: somewhere in the middle of the note, or at the end?), or a smooth diminuendo (and when does that dim start and end, exactly)?

If the note in question happens to be played by 16 first-violins in unison, SOMEBODY has to decide all that, otherwise there will most likely be 16 different versions being played simultaneously!

That’s why we have conductors who can indicate that with a gesture!

[Paolo_T]

Just a question: can, at this point, this combined dynamic be entered?

sffp

I can’t seem to find a way to make it stay as I write it.

Paolo

[Mark_Johnson]

Enter it (shows “ffp subito”), then in Properties change the Subito forte style to sf.

(For a discussion about how this s does not mean ‘subito’ see this thread.)

[Paolo_T]

@Mark_Johnson

Enter it (shows “ffp subito”), then in Properties change the Subito forte style to sf.

It works! Thank you!

Yes, it’s a bit odd that the ‘s’ is interpreted as ‘subito’, instead of the first letter of “sforzando”. Let’s check that thread.

Paolo