I have a song structure with repeats that I’m struggling to score. The structure is:
Verse 1,
refrain,
Verse 2,
refrain,
verse 3,
refrain,
verse 1,
refrain.
Each verse is different musically
Any advice how to structure this please.
Thanks and regards
Michael Bond
Not sure that I’ve explained this right. Song starts with verse one, followed by refrain, then verse 2 which is structurally different than verse 1, then back to same refrain etc. In your solution I’m scoring the same refrain 3 timer instead of once so looks like this
Verse 1
Refrain 1
Verse 2
Refrain 1
Verse 3
Refrain 1
Verse 1
Refrain 1
The refrain is the same each time but the verses are different. I can get the verse to refrain easily enough using Segno marks but I can’t find a way of getting back to verse 1 after the refrain at end of verse 3
As for paper….well I’m producing for players using table/laptop so the fewer number of pedal presses to move from page to page the better.
I think @hrnbouma’s suggestion was that you might be better off in the long run writing the refrain out explicitly each time (except for the last), even if it’s the same, rather than asking players to follow a complicated repeat structure. You can copy and paste the refrain once you’ve entered it once, although if you have to make changes, you do need to remember to make them in each instance of the refrain.
Yes, I understood you just fine. Indeed you will have some copies of the refrain that are technically redundant, but every repeat construction adds additional risk of confusion and miscommunication. When engraving for tablets I’d even advise to get rid of repeat structures entirely and just copy out the entire form chronologically; you’re usually seeing single pages instead of spreads, and backwards page turns are also quite risky.
Well, I will just let this matter rest there as it appears Dorico, unlike Finale, cannot support what I want it to do. Just a pity that Finale is coming to an end. For the avoidance of any misunderstanding the same applies to my second post on the limit of marker indices.
Thank you both for taking the time to reply.
Michael Bond
I wonder if Dorico could benefit from something like the Cubase Arranger Track…
If playback is important, disregard this solution, which is only visual:
The “D.S., then verse x” are done with custom text for the D.S. in the properties panel.
Lae
Thanks, that gives me the solution I was looking for. Gets it all on one page and quite straightforward to follow.
Appreciate you taking the time
Regards
Michael Bond
I would add a +1 to just writing out the form long hand, especially if it’s for tablets… Avoidance of doubt is always worth the extra page turns, especially if there’s no cost/weight issues…
Just my 2c….
P
My jazz arranging professor back in undergrad greatly discouraged us from using repeat structures (repeat barlines or bar repeats were totally fine, just not D.S.'s or codas) at all for anything longer than a lead sheet. Part of the logic is that as an arranger you have the option to make a repeated section more interesting each time it occurs if you write it out (by changing the orchestration, texture, harmony, etc.), but even if you just copy and paste the repeated section with no changes it makes the form of the piece very clear, whereas a complicated repeat structure will need discussion before looking at the piece, and someone on the gig will inevitably mess it up by either missing a direction entirely or going back to the wrong spot, especially if it’s a chart being handed out with very little rehearsal time.
The clearest musical roadmap is always starting from the top left corner of page one, ending at the bottom right corner of the final page, and never doubling back on itself.
Good info here, thank you. For people like me, amateur within amateurs but enthusiastic musician such questions arise from time to time.
This is usually the safest way to go, especially if rehearsal time is limited (or close to non-existent) and/or there are some who are sight-reading at the gig.
Even after 50-plus years of playing in various sorts of ensembles (bands, orchestras, quartets, etc.) I still find that I must consciously and deliberately check where the repeats and D.S.'s go back to - BEFORE I start playing.
