Compressors / EQ + Attributes

La2a is good for non percussive stuff, vocals, bass etc. i would NOT put it on a masterbus unless you are doing an 80’ties R&B ballad. 1176 options are often more gritty and a bit more forgiving on attack/transients with milder settings.
But Miitchiemasha is full on the money. Just experiment and make mental notes of the vibes you hear.
Again when thinking LA2a think “soothing” 1176 think “grit”
Regarding EQ, you get focus by cutting 200-500 area where applicable. Presence in the 2k 3.5k area
Above the 4k don’t boost to much as it doesn’t sound to good itb, bit brittle, if you want more “air” cut elswhere to make space.

I agree with the OP as well, but this the lounge and I don’t mind a bit of topic drift. I actually enjoy it.

In my comment, I wasn’t assuming something is not right about the monitoring, however I see how I might have given that impression. I wanted to suggest that the monitoring be looked at in conjunction with making decisions about plug-ins or signal processing. It’s been so helpful for me to work both sides – learning the plug-ins and their various sounds, making sure I keep track of what I’m actually hearing in the monitors, or what’s missing or perhaps creating trouble in the room or in the mix.

Better gear and better, acoustically treated mixing spaces do bring about better results in the hands of the the highly skilled engineers and producers who know how to use them. Anyone who has set foot or worked in a high-end recording room, mixing space, sound stage, concert hall, even a good recital chamber, and I have, appreciates what amazing things excellent acoustic treatment does.

The Guild analogy works for me. While Norm on New Yankee Workshop could probably make a wonderful piece working in some basement carpentry shop, the guy or gal who owns that basement shop could not produce the amazing work Norn can when he, Norm, is working in his workshop with the tools and materials he chooses (or the client demands :unamused:). Norm’s a Master Carpenter and the same is true for the senior engineers and senior producers in the industry. I consider myself to be an apprentice, maybe, if I’m being kind, Journeyman lowest grade. I’m here to learn.

To actually get a little back on topic. For me Cubase’s compressors are very powerful and interesting. I’m learning to use them both for controlling dynamics and for tone shaping. The Vintage and Tube Compressors I use more for tone coloring and I still don’t think I’m fully exploiting them as best as I might. The standard and brickwall compressors and the limiter I use more for loudness and final mix bus or master bus treatment or enhancement. I’m going for single project mixes not Mastered Albums of work. The latter would be well beyond my current abilities and facilities, the former seems within reach with what I have, and, of course I want more cool plug-ins, instruments, better monitors, some top quality microphones, a better room, etc…

Thanks for all the posts, take care for now.

P.S. lastly, to veer wildly off topic again, I’ve been quoting Karl Popper recently on tolerance. He said, “Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant,” Karl Popper. Often called “the paradox of tolerance,” given what’s happening, it seems to be much needed now.

Yes, The voice of reason Stephen. But you know these type of topics deserve a bit of frank and a bit more directness. As they are not really questions but more comprehensive leisure brainfarts endrenched in laziness. The OP already knew that the Mitchiemasha answer would be the kind of answer he would get/action he could take to solve his “problem” . It’s good to tickle/challenge people a bit to get their brain in motion as these brainfarts eat a lot of bandwidth, if you don’t reduce it to the core of the question. extensive spoonfeeding answering all scenario’s is the easy way.

The synopsys of “I own a slate bundle” and it fries my brain even thinking of trying all plugins in there, just name me every plugin and what’s typically used for" is just a RIDICOLOUS question.

Then then 2nd question is even more ridiculous "It would be even better if you you also tell me how my favorite artists put these plugs to their best use in their productions, so I can automatically sound like them’ :laughing: silly questions no?!?

Raphie, I think we have to muddle our way into understanding how to use the audio processing and so a certain amount of quandary and barinfartery is going to be part of the process. it certainly has been for me. Then, there’s also the marketing forces and PR pushing out the “new” stuff. Some of it is great, some of it is not better than what we already have, but the hype about a product is a factor. Sometimes it’s hard to know, other times a product becomes a “must use” because everyone else is using it, artists and clients demand it with or without any real justification from creative, production or engineering standpoints.

I do have some very precise questions about some the Cubase processors and general processing questions. If I post on those I’ll try to be more exacting and provide a screen shot and so on. I’ve also found some really great sounding presets in the libraries offered by some of the plug-ins. I’m starting to save more plug-in presets and Preset Chains all of which is helping with Project development.

IMHO, we’re lucky we can slap on an EQ or a Compressor and then remove it, change it, all so easily. In the old days of hardware and wires, a simple task, a simple Kick/Pad side-chain compression (assuming one even had the equipment for it), for example, would take much more effort than it does now in the DAW. Someone with a even a modest set of plug-ins and instruments – Cubase Pro Nine stock set – has access to a great amount of sound processing capability. I’ve never had a better sound making experience than I have with Cubase. Take care fo now

For Drums and Bass, I like some of the Presets in the Vintage Compressor. There’s one called Brit Acoustic (if my memory serves, not on DAW now) that blew my mind when I first heard it. It took me some time to work out what was going on, but it was drastically shaping the tone of the kit. I was using it on a pretty dry Acoustic Agent standard rock kit. I like that “punch” button it has, too, it lets the transient pass and then kicks in on the rest. Nice. It kind of works backwards in a way, so I often have to re-wire my brain when I put it on.

The Tube Compressor I like on Vocals and also on guitar at times. I’ve not worked with it enough and think I should be using it more than I am. I think of it as a tone shaping compressor with the drive control and the internal side-chain it has. It’s nice.

I really like the Limiter. I use that on individual tracks for recording at times, on the Mix Bus and then on the Master Bus – when I’m trying to take something to a Master Level, final loudness. It’s clean and lets me control the loudness. I also like Limter6 and want to get the new “Gentleman’s edition” of it from Tokyo Dawn Labs.

I don’t like the Brickwall Limiter as much, it seems to make things sound more brittle. Maybe I’m not using it totally correctly yet.

I like the Maximizer on the Mix Bus and on individual tracks at times, but used sparingly. It seems to do nice things to the mids and high frequencies. I wish there was more control and more information about what it actually is doing. I keep meaning to try it on Vocals, but so far I’ve not had the right Project for that, but it might make backgrounds really pop out in a mix in a good way.

I like the Channel Strip a lot and how flexible it is. I often change the order of the items on it and it’s so clean to work with. I use the strip compressors for side-chain. Mostly I have the strip first, then the inserts, but sometimes I do put the strip after the inserts. I like the Pre Section too and use the Low and High cuts on that often, that then leaves me four other bands of EQ on the strip.

Frequency EQ is excellent. I’m using the M/S on the Low End to cut the bass from the side channel. It also has a lot of headroom. Very nice plug-in, well worth the upgrade to Ver 9, imho.

VST Dynamics I’ve not used as much as I should, but it’s a very good plug-in. Very clean, not for coloring the sound, just for controlling the dynamics.

Anyway, that’s some of where it’s at for me at this point. Good luck with your Proejcts. :slight_smile:

Stephen, I fully agree with bith your posts. FreqEQ is the best thing that happened to Cubase, it totally defeats the need to buy any 3rd pty plugin. Imho experimenting, discovering and learning should be stimulated. This helps form an opinion and hindsight.

Raphie, thanks for your posts and good questions. I’m glad you post here. The more I work with Frequency EQ the more I like it. It seems to have great headroom and working with the different modes, particularly the M/S mode. has been very interesting. It’s very musical sounding, too, I think. It’s the first item on many track inserts for me and on the Mix and Master Busses. I also like it on Guitars for complimentary EQs using the Left/Right mode. I found it a bit daunting at first, but I think it’s one of the best plug-ins in the my suite. Take care for now.

See? That wasn’t so difficult. :stuck_out_tongue:

I agree that fiddling and listening to the results is a good approach. The problem in that, however, is that there are so many dynamics-based VSTs that you could literally spend all day installing new VSTs to try them out and still not have a good result at the end. This is what I was trying to avoid. (Plus, I didn’t want to spend all day uninstalling them after this exercise was finished.) I was simply trying to help shorten the process by understanding which compressors were suitable for which situations.

For what it’s worth, Waves makes emulations of the dbx 160, Fairchild 670, LA2A, LA3A, 1176 Black and 1176 Blue. You can get all 6 of these for $207.25 if you get the last 4 in a bundle.

This is a fair criticism. This is less about laziness for me and more about being overwhelmed with the options that are available if one googled “compressor VST”. You could literally spend a day or two just reading the pages that come up in the results.

Another thing that would help, since many of the respondents know nothing about me, is knowing that I’m a “sometimes producer.” I’ve produced stuff mainly for my own enjoyment, though I’ve done work for others. Unfortunately, since this really is not a revenue generating or a frequently done activity, I can’t justify having a true studio with an acoustically treated room. So I agree that calibrating my monitors, etc. would be amazing it doesn’t work for me in reality since I’d have to get rid of the drop ceiling, florescent lighting, put foam on the walls and bass traps in the corners. Therefore, I rely on plugins (and the occasional piece of outboard gear that I’ve acquired over the years) to achieve the results I get. And because of this, knowledge of how the VSTs work is crucial to me.

To the point of an earlier poster, producers like the Lord-Alge brothers and others have their set of go-to gear (not just compressors, but EQ, consoles, etc.) and since they are generally recognized as being near the apex of what producers can actually make I wanted to understand their process, workflow, and why they choose one set of gear over others.

I hope this clarifies.

And, Raphie, I’m being lighthearted in my responses to you. I hope you haven’t taken offense.

No it’s all good, no worries.
While we’re at it: I think there is a general hype of VST reincarnations of iconic gear being declared indispensable for creating “iconic” vibes.

  1. The plugins often don’t come close to the original
  2. They don’t sound that different from eachother (read you can pretty closely match results and output)
  3. The ones who used the OG’s would not put 20 instances in one mix

And I could go on and on. When using Slate I would probably start with the SSL VCC on the channels and mixbus and SSL bus compressor on the mixbus, mild settings, not more than 3dB reduction.
This should give some “vibe” and “glue” you don’t need to treat each channel mandatory, it’s perfectly fine to leave channels as they are without EQ or compression treatment.
Another good angle is trying to build a mix with channel gain, lowcut and LCR panning only. No tools or treatment, you will really learn fast about dynamic relationships. The “magic” is in the mix, not the toolset, it’s all about the cook, bot the kitchen.

To much choice in general… that goes for just about everything.
Leave things alone as much as possible … that goes for just about everything.
except cheese, I like cheese.

Hi Foolomon,
Interesting topic, as usual! I’d add a couple of remarks.

First, presets: you really can’t just use them, you have to adjust them, because neither equalizers nor compressors know beforehand what your frequency and volume inputs look like.

So for me, equalizing is doing side-by-side listening to my favorite reference tracks and then adjusting. In the types of tracks I make, I do notice that I need to reduce the lower mids to bring more clarity and reduce muddiness, because electric guitars and electric pianos have a lot in those frequency ranges, where drums and bass are already at home.

And for compressing, you have to fiddle with the threshold just to ensure that it is even activating. If your signal is lower than whatever the preset assumed, it doesn’t do anything. And the ratio depends to some extent on how “even” the signal was on the way in. I will usually check it by ear, but I’ll also check it visually to see what the greatest decibel reduction is. If it’s a high number, it’s really making a mess out of your track. And that’s before any discussion of attack and release.

Second, I think there are multiple compression stages going on in your favorite recordings, and I guess Lenny, Kim and Jet would be using multiple stages in their genres. In the first place, Lenny and Kim’s electric guitars and basses are at least moderately compressed at the track level for sure; it’s part of their “sound”, and distortion devices also have a compression effect. Snares, kicks, and toms are going to be subjected to even more severe compression at the track level in rock or rock sounding tracks (country drums, fusion jazz, indy rock these days all sound like rock drums). I’m using 4:1 on the snare as a starting point. The whole drumset might be going through a compressor even after the individual drum tracks have been compressed. Then, on the output channel, there’s going to be a light “glue” compressor that might make 2dB dips in places. That compressor is where a loud kick hit or snare hit can push down the volume of the other instruments, so it’s a really complex effect. There might also be an analog emulator in that chain, which also often compresses a little. Then, after that, the mastering stage will yet again use a compressor and limiter to increase the loudness. I use Ozone for this but there are good plugs included in Cubase. And there might be a multiband compressor in there as well.

So if you just take a look at the wave shape of one of your favorites (I mean load it into Cubase and look at the track) I think you’ll see that it’s a lot “thicker” than your own tracks. It can often look like a solid bar. If you run a pro track through say Wavelab and do analysis, you often see tracks with RMS loudness greater than -9 dB. As an example, Lenny Lee’s Tilting at Windmills from Silver Threads comes in just above -9 (and it sounds great). Look at a Mettallica album, and it’s a solid bar.

So third point, the “character” of your plugin really only matters after have figured out all of the above. If you’ve already gotten to the point where all these layers of compression are in play and none of them stick out or cause the music to go dead dynamically or cause the music to pump at the output stage, then that’s the point where you can discuss the characteristics of the various compressors, in my opinion. Because all the other parameters are already in your control, the threshold, the ratio, the attack, and the release, and they do lots more to the sound than the character of the compressor, which in the end, is just simulated in math anyway. So in my case, I’m using the stock plugins from Cubase and Ozone, because I’ve gotten used to how to operate them. Although I do have some fancier ones that came with Native Instruments, and one day I’ll play with those!

Just my opinion, and hope it helps.

Yeah, this is a good explanation as are the others.

For what it’s worth, I do have my own set of presets that I started using a few songs ago. These were combinations of VSTs, channel strip inserts, etc. all tweaked a bit here and there. And while I do listen and occasionally make adjustments to the settings, I will confess that I don’t like to do it only because it goes against this internal struggle for consistency that I have.

A few days ago, I started working on a new song to give to my wife for our anniversary. I’ll take the feedback from everyone here and see how I can apply it to this song as I get beyond tracking and into mixing and, ultimately, mastering. I do believe that, for the most part, my mixes are good. But there are still definite areas where improvement can be realized, most notably the vocals and drums. This is what prompted me to create this thread to begin with. I do firmly believe that I’ll need to start applying multiple stages of compressors on both vocals and at least the snare and kick to really get the effect that I’m hoping to achieve, and I believe the comments in this thread will help me better understand how to approach this problem. Hopefully, I can solve it to my own satisfaction.

Thanks again, everyone!

lol… something like that. I wish I had more to add myself, but I think some other people have more experience with classic gear.

In my opinion Waves´ emulations are inferior to at least UAD-2 ones. It´s possible they all improved recently, but I´ve never been a huge fan of Waves plugins as far as character goes.

I actually own only 2 Waves VSTs: the CLA Vocals one (which I have yet to use since I bought it after my last song was completed) and the Piano one (also haven’t used it).

Currently, I use stock presets for a number of instrument types. Occasionally, I’ll use NI’s Supercharger GT on vocal tracks. And I’ll use FabFilter’s Pro-C2 for master buss compression / mastering.

Raphie and Larry, i totally second the “no worries.” We’re all at different levels in our use of Cubase and how much or how little we’re involved with using it. I just saw the promo for Hanz Zimmerer’s “Master Class” video. WOW! It’s the ultimate set-up, he’s got something like eight large screens, a huge touch screen, a top quality 88-key keyboard controller, and, of course, himself as the key to the whole thing. But, on the other side is the young person with her first notebook learning to track voice and guitar with a drum loop and a chord track. I’d like think all are welcome to past here regardless of their experience level. In short, “no worries.”

If someone is working in a multi-million dollar New York or LA mixing palace I wonder how much they even think about an SSL Plug-In, they have the actual SSL, Neve, Yamaha, mixing desks, digital routers, mass storage, and on and on. By looking like the modules graphically (GUI), people assume they will sound “the same.” If they sound “good” that’s fine, at least something is being offered with the plug-in. If, however, they sound nothing like the original or actually sound bad, then it’s just marketing hype with a GUI under license from the original manufacturer; as good as having a t-shirt for a Steinway piano rather than an actual Steinway Concert Grand. Yet, if they don’t sound anything like the original, but the market accepts or even demands them, then the difference doesn’t matter, the company has a hit product. Good on them. :slight_smile:

I’ll try using the level and LCR approach you suggest. I don’t have Slate but can use the channel strip in a similar way. I’m familiar with the SSL plug-in and basic features. I’ve seen it used and demonstrated in videos to get the basic idea. I think that plug-in is one of the good ones regardless of comparisons to “the real thing.”


Thanks for the good mixing advice, Raphie. I’ll try some of the methods you suggest. Good ideas. :slight_smile:

Here’s a new game I’ve been playing. I’ll take a track, duplicate it, invert the phase on one track and then use a single band of tight-Q EG to sweep the frequencies on one of the tracks (full mix and single tracks) – interesting learning exercise I picked up from a video. My room is not in any way perfect, far from it. However, by calibrating my levels and becoming more aware of Equal Loudness, Instrument frequency ranges, the dB, the K-Scales, LUFS, etc. I’ve learned – am slowly learning – to listen differently. Sound itself sounds different to me now than it did before. Cubase Pro Nine was what opened that door for me as it has for many. :slight_smile:


Take care for now

This is good to know. Of course, Waves is considerably cheaper than the UAD-2 ones because I don’t need to buy the hardware DSP to go with it.

I do have Variety of Sound’s ThrillseekerLA, which is Bootsy’s take on the LA2A. But I haven’t tried using it yet mostly because I didn’t know squat about the classic compressors. Hence, this thread. :slight_smile:

Also remember, there is no “intended” use. If you feel a LA2A is doing great on your drums, then that’s not wrong.
Don’t get hung up on a “treatment list” of mandatory treatment with pre destined plugins /settings you must apply on every channel. The content itself defines what’s needed, not the legacy use of the OG’s these plugins try to mimic.

Cakewalk were giving away their LA2A, I picked it up, any others here tried it? what are your thoughts???