Condensed Score bugs?

This is the top feature many users have been waiting for, I guess, and thank you very much the Dorico Team to have implemented this in the new version of the software.

Of course with new feature, there are always some bugs lying around. I hope I haven’t duplicated these questions.

  1. Upon working on this project in 3/4 time, with double wind parts, I have this section where the 1st player of each woodwind carries a solo phrase. However, when I switch to condensed score view, unlike the Flute and Clarinet parts, the 2nd Oboe part (in rest) brings up 3 crotchet rests instead of a full bar rest. Is this a bug?
    https://www.steinberg.net/forums/download/file.php?mode=view&id=44362&sid=640ecdafa18017cb7994289baab95e14

  2. After the 1st Flute solo phrase there joins in the 2nd Flute part in a big tutti section, would it be possible to have 1 stem and the words “a2” straightaway, instead of what it’s showing now?
    https://www.steinberg.net/forums/download/file.php?mode=view&id=44361&sid=640ecdafa18017cb7994289baab95e14

  3. Still in condensed score, is it possible, or would it be, not to have the word “a2” on each page? I’m seeing the a2 on all of the condensed parts if they are sharing the same melodic line, on each page.

Thank you.


sorry for bringing this up, as the forum is quite busy with Dorico 3 related threads and this thread has been pushed to page 2 in a short time. I just wish somebody could help me in these.

If no one knows the answers at the moment, I’ll let this thread die. Sorry again.

Thank you.

A. There may be things that are specific to your project that we can’t see from a picture. You need to post a cut-down version of the project that demonstrates the problem, not a picture, or it’s very unlikely that anyone will be able to help you.

B. Read the version history. There’s plenty of stuff surrounding Condensing that doesn’t yet work optimally, and some of it’s documented.

No, it’s not a bug, though it is something we expect to change in future. The reason you get three rests here instead of a bar rest is because those rests belong to different players, and Dorico doesn’t yet know how to glue those rests together into a bar rest.

Not as things stand, no, because those phrases don’t align: as far as Dorico is concerned, flute 1 is still playing the same phrase, and flute 2 starts a new phrase at the point at which they start playing in unison. In the future, when you can create a condensation change event, you’ll be able to tell Dorico that this is effectively the start of a new phrase, and that it should thus condense the two players onto a single stem.

We will probably add an option to suppress the player labels on each condensed staff at the start of the system unless it actively differs from the situation at the end of the previous system, but no such option exists today. For now, you’ll have to hide those player labels if you don’t want to see them.

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I echo Kenny’s enthusiasm for the condense feature. Thank you for implementing this.

After my first day working with Dorico 3.0, I have come across several bugs that I wanted to let you know about but I haven’t found a general thread for reporting these so please feel free to move this post.

I have included a trivial example here since I cannot attach a Dorico file:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AniEEnvPpznJhOAfhqNw_D_tK0N4Iw?e=xIsIFT

  1. Copying lyrics from one stave to another when verse numbers have been selected in the original part does not show the verse numbers in the new staff. See Flow 4 in the example.

  2. Adding a flow and then deleting the final flow leaves orphans on the final page of the example.

  3. Selecting Condensing creates havoc with the lyrics:

  • Flows 1 and 3 place all lyrics above the top stave but this is to be expected since only the Soprano had lyrics.

  • Flow 2 (where all voices have the same lyrics), places lyrics between the staves as expected but also below the second stave (TB) where in normal practice they would not occur and I have not found a way to remove them.

  • Flow 4 is an utter disaster, partly because the Soprano lyrics had verse numbers and the others did not but why are the lyrics duplicated between the first and second staves?

  1. One other awkward problem: in Windows 10 on a laptop with its recommended 1366 x 768 resolution, the project info window has the Close and Apply buttons hidden behind the taskbar and they are only accessible if you change your Windows setting to automatically hide the taskbar. In Dorico 2 you could get around this by putting your cursor in a blank field and pressing Enter to close the window but now pressing Enter just creates a new flow.

  2. The project was created using the unaccompanied choir template but when I open the Edit Instrument button in Play, I see the HalionSonic SE interface, not the new choral one discussed in the YouTube video. How can I show that interface instead?

Thanks again to the development team for all your hard work. I will certainly use many of the new features.

To get the new SoundForge choral sounds, one has to have downloaded the new (9GB) HALion sounds from the installer. These sounds will play through the HALion interface but will likely be listed as “Sustain” in the slots of the HALion Player.

halion.png

Thank you Daniel for your explanation.

But I’m still struggling with question 1 where the 2nd oboe is showing 3 crotchet rests instead of a whole bar rest. As you can see in the attached image, the same structure appears in the flute parts a few bars afterward but the 2nd flute part is having a whole bar rest instead. And this makes me wonder why is there a difference… the 2nd flute (and the 2nd clarinet prior to these bars, although slightly different in rhythm) both have the whole bar rest showing up, while the 2nd oboe reacts differently.

Attached is a cutdown version of this project, showing from the beginning up to the end of this section. Somehow I manage to find out this “bug”. In this cutdown version, if you view in condensed score, that 2nd oboe part is still showing 3 separate crotchet rests instead, but if you remove all the notes from bar 1 to 18, and view in condensed score again, the problem is solved with 2nd Oboe having a whole bar rest.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1wgw5fih1m9jt1h/Condensed%20score%20problems.dorico?dl=0

Hello Daniel and fellow musicians,

I have been trying to look for the moment when it causes that 2nd Oboe problem on displaying 3 individual crotchet rests instead of a whole bar rest.

Daniel, if you can kindly check the dropbox file (cutdown version of a .dorico file) I attached in my previous comment. Focusing on the 2 oboe parts, originally in bar 7-8 I have 2 tied minims lasting 6 beats in both parts. When you view the score in condensed score, the above problem appears. However, if you remove the tie in 2nd oboe in bar 7-8, leaving 2 separate minims, the problem disappears in condensed view straightaway and the 2nd oboe is having a whole bar rest.

I believe, therefore, there is a bug lying around.

Thanks Derrek.

That makes perfect sense. I should have realized that the SoundForge window was linked to the edit button.

I have the same problem. See attached graphic. Flute 2 is completely silent in the bar with the odd rests, and also in
flutes.jpg
the surrounding bars. Oddly, a little later the same situation happens with the oboes, but there it’s fine.

Belkina, do you have tied notes on the 2nd flute right before the rest bars?

If so, have you tried removing the tied temporarily, will that problem disappear?

You are right, removing the tie makes the problem disappear!

I’ve discovered several places in my own projects where the answer to “why isn’t condensing working right” was “because the uncondensed score has always been wrong, but nobody ever noticed.”

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I’ve also discovered many of those, but this particular one is not one of them. The tie that “causes” the odd behaviour was not a mistake. And it should not lead to this result.

First I thought it has something to do with tied notes, but no… In the same project I have another passage where 2 Oboes play in unison (no tied note at the end of phrase), followed by a few bars rest, then 2nd oboe does some solo bit. Dorico still gives me separate rests in 1st Oboe line…

It’s always the Oboe!!

As mentioned in my earlier post about condensing choral parts, numerous problems occur.

Another one I discovered today: using offset in Engrave mode on any of the notes or lyrics in either condensed or expanded mode has no effect on the position of the note or lyric, or am I misunderstanding what offset is supposed to do?

Thanks

I have encountered another problem with condensing. The key signature change in the middle of a system is present in all parts and the full score but missing in several lines in the compressed concert score. I cannot determine what the underlying reason is. Here is part of a page from a large orchestral work where this occurs:


Any ideas? Thanks!

I do not understand the problem. What should I be seeing that isn’t there? The large key signature shows up right in the middle of the woodwinds, which is where I would expect it.

Any key signature that exists in the Flutes should also exist in the Oboes. If the score’s transposing (we haven’t been told) then it should be a different key signature for the Bb Clarinets.

Comparing Cl. 2 to the Picc. part, I’d say the score is in Concert pitch.
Clearly David should be able to get what he wants, but in my own work I’d prefer one large time sig centered on the group (instrument family).