Condensing for SA-TB and clefs

First of all, I’m very VERY glad that section singer players were included in the condensation feature! That makes a lot of sense!
So I decided to give a go to the condensing feature, since I’m working on a SATB arrangement.
At first I decided to include all singers in a single custom group, thinking that sometimes a group SA-TB would be created and some others a Tutti. This didn’t work quite well, because the groupings were a bit weird, sometimes grouping Bass and alto and Soprano and tenor, which didn’t work out that well.
Fine, I said. I’ll make the groups SA - TB. I think that’s how it should be done anyway (and besides, I have no unison tuttis whatsoever). Then I faced another problem: the clef in the TB part is treble 8ba, while I would like it to be bass clef, as it’s common practice in every jazz choir chart I’ve seen. Fine, I said, again. I’ll make a clef change that will only be shown for the transposed parts! That has also be shown in the presentation videos! However, if that clef is the very first clef, that doesn’t seem to work! As soon as I place a bass clef in the first rhythmical position of a staff, it overrides the default one.
Is there a way to have a condensed bass clef in a SA - TB layout, while retaining the treble 8ba for the tenor part?
I want to thank the team for all the hard work. It’s a really amazing release!

It’s already been stated in various places that this’ll be fixed in a future update.
In the meantime, if you can survive without an open-scored layout (one with four separate staves) then the obvious workaround is to use a Baritone voice rather than a Tenor one, then click the dropdown next to the Baritone “instrument” in Setup mode, go Edit Names, and rename it as “Tenor”.

It’s mentioned in one of the Scoring Notes review posts on Dorico 3 (can’t remember whether it’s the general one or the condensing one) that the treble 8ba clef being used for TB when condensing is a known Dorico 3.0 issue. I expect this will get fixed in a point release along the way.

Thanks for the replies. I haven’t seen it anywhere yet, but I’m glad it’s going to be fixed. As I’ve said, I even wasn’t expecting to have condensing for choir singers. I can survive with a 4-part layout, so I’ll stick with it.

Suggestion for Dorico team regarding lyrics positioning:

I’ve began making this king of scores for an organist/pianist who provides accompaniment. (And I’ll continue doing so) They’re super dense (more music fits on a page) and still highly readable. Please consider implementing an option for placing the lyrics “on the outside” of a condensed SATB grand staff. (i.e. soprano and alto up, tenor and bass down - so the distance between the staves can be smaller)

Can one not choose to put lyrics above or below a staff (in properties) already, or is this different with condensing?

I tried it on condensed staves (produced by “condensing” in Dorico3) but wasn’t successful. Selecting a lyrics line and pressing “F” doesn’t do anything. (Neither selecting above/below in properties)

Considering Dorico for my SATB + chamber-orchestra works.
But, I’ll just wait for a functional SATB condensing. That would be the main feature for me right now.

The clef issue has been fixed in Dorico 3.1, gsoler. Is that what you were waiting for?

Hi! I’m using Dorico, and I’m also having problems with this. I have created custom condensing groups (SA + TB) in the Layout Options, but when I click “Condensing”, nothing happens. Am I missing something?

Welcome to the forum.

Really it’s mpossible to know without knowing what’s actually on the page. There are all manner of things that prevent staves from condensing.

For future reference: The problem was that I was in Galley View, and condensing seems to work only in Page View.

Yes, that is very much by design. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be a reliable way to edit the individual lines, of which the condensed version is only a representation.

I’m using Dorico 3.5.11. For a condensed score, can we select the clefs for that layout only? In my case there’s a C alto clef, two C tenor clefs, an F bass clef (and F basso continuo clef, unrelated to this question… so far!).

I’d like the condensed score to have a G soprano and F bass clef , plus for now the basso continuo as a third F clef.

If I remember correctly, a condensed staff will use the clef of the first instrument condensed onto the staff. I think (though I’ve not tried it) that you should be able to use the Clef and Transposition Override dialog for the layout to change the clef used by that first instrument in only that layout, and that clef should then be used by the condensed staff.

[quote=“dspreadbury, post:15, topic:132530”]
Clef and Transposition Override

Thanks Daniel, but I’m not sure this will work yet. The help section for this doesn’t have any examples so I’m not sure I’m using the function correctly. Here’s what I set it to – you can see it didn’t change the clefs in this layout.

I just checked this again myself, and I find that the condensed staff does indeed show the clef used by the first instrument on the staff, and it will take the clef override added in the Clef and Transposition Overrides dialog into account as expected. Please attach your project and let me know which layout is giving you trouble so I can take a look.