Conditions in the Base and Add-on Switches menu/The notes panel articulations icons

[paulxoro]

Hi there,

1. Please help me grasp the concept of “conditions” in the base and add-on switches menu: “… you can set conditions instructing the expression map to use a different legato sound with a quicker attack for short notes than for longer notes automatically.”
   In my E&W Symphonic Orchestra, I have several legato articulations that are assigned to different(!) key-switches. What should I input in the Conditions subsection to enable Dorico to choose between legato articulations “automatically”? Does this feature still require you to add all the legato articulations separately, as individual items ? If so, then what’s the point?
   2.What’s the connection between the articulations/techniques icons in the notes panel and similar articulations/techniques that are part of our hand-made expression maps? For example, there is a slur in the notes panel that is supposed to represent legato in general. Can I assign my several legato articulations to this slur so that I can use this icon in my score, which will trigger (“automatically”) one of the corresponding legato key-switches in my VST, and spare me from the hassle of creating extra legato articulations and assigning weird names and “composites” in the Edit Playing Technique menu?
   
   
   
   
   

[dspreadbury]

Paging @mducharme who might be kind enough to reply here.

[mducharme]

@paulxoro

Does this feature still require you to add all the legato articulations separately, as individual items ? If so, then what’s the point?

I can’t quite tell how you have things set up from your screenshot, because unfortunately Dorico does not yet show the actual “linked playback techniques” in the main window but is instead only in a popup. So if you give your techniques override names by typing something into the “Name” field (as you have) then it is not visible in the screenshot what techniques it is actually linked to. So to be able to answer your question properly I would need to be able to either get a copy of the map, or at the very least, have you select each of your legato articulations and click the pen icon below to show the popup window where it shows the linked techniques and show those screenshots.

However, in general, the purpose of it is that then you can have multiple base switches all linked to the same playback technique (or exact same group of multiple playback techniques). Normally this would not work correctly as the first one would always end up being selected, but the conditions provide a way of controlling this. In your example above you don’t necessarily need a separate “lyrical fast” for instance - you can use a simple “lyrical” in the score and have it work for triggering either lyrical or lyrical fast depending on the note length without having to add something else.

Similarly you probably also don’t need to make a special “short marcato” playback technique or playing technique.

Even outside of this all though, I suspect you might not realize that it is possible to associate a base switch with more than one Playback Technique, and not just one, due to the way you currently have things set up. Some people like to divide things up the way you have (although I don’t), so I can’t be sure. I only bring that up because it’s not always obvious to people that the playback technique selection dialog that appears when you make a base switch (or click on the pen icon) is a multi-item selector where you can hold a modifier key like CTRL on windows to select multiple options.

@paulxoro

What’s the connection between the articulations/techniques icons in the notes panel and similar articulations/techniques that are part of our hand-made expression maps? For example, there is a slur in the notes panel that is supposed to represent legato in general.

The articulations in the notes panel will generally also have associated playback techniques with them that they automatically trigger. If you open the piano roll in the bottom panel of Dorico you’ll see the Playing Techniques lane which shows you the currently triggered playing technique based on the settings, and you should generally see this change based on the articulations selected (ex. a slur over notes will make the playing technique “Legato”, staccato dots over them will make them “Staccato”, etc.). So yes, putting a slur over a group of notes will automatically result in the “Legato” playing/playback technique being selected.

[YourMusic.Pro]

@mducharme

the playback technique selection dialog that appears when you make a base switch (or click on the pen icon) is a multi-item selector where you can hold a modifier key like CTRL on windows to select multiple options.

You can do WHAT?

[mducharme]

@YourMusic.Pro

You can do WHAT?

Yeah - a lot of people don’t realize this, but in my opinion the best way to think of Playback Techniques is like a series of “tags” (like hashtags in social media) where you have that one-to-many relationship.

A lot of people end up creating weird custom playback techniques like “Lyrical Legato Expressive” and “Lyrical Legato” and “Regular Legato Expressive”, but I would instead divide these up into multiple playback techniques:

“Legato”
“Expressive”
“Lyrical”

And use various combinations of those to match. So the library’s Lyrical Legato Expressive would be matched with all three together Lyrical+Legato+Expressive. Then the regular Lyrical Legato would get matched with just Lyrical+Legato (matching only two, not including expressive). Then the regular legato expressive would be the combination of Legato+Expressive (not including lyrical). This is how I always do things.

Regarding the weird custom playback techniques that some people make like “Lyrical Legato Expressive”, the equivalent in social media posting would be if someone insisted on always only using one hashtag for each post (even though you could use multiple hashtags).

#Lyrical-Legato-Expressive

But I think most people would split a social media post tags based on the individual items instead:

#lyrical #legato #expressive

And similarly this is how I treat playing techniques and playback techniques, because it is more flexible, not so monolithic.

[derAbgang]

@paulxoro

In my E&W Symphonic Orchestra

When I did expression maps for this library (what seems like eons ago), I created 2 new playing/playback techniques: Expressive and Lyrical. I then added them to the expression map with legato combinations:
expressive
expressive + legato
lyrical
lyical + legato

Then, in particular for this library, I used the conditions < medium, e.g., to trigger the “fast” or “fst” variants, >medium for ‘slw’ variants and medium for the simple “expr”. As much as possible, I tried to wire the expr leg and lyr leg to the legato combinations (wasn’t always possible). I remember this library for massive inconsistencies in patches across the instruments (no trills in 18 violins, but in 11 violins?) – was a real mess building a template with this library. But in the end, I managed a 1/2-way decent template. If you’re interested, I can try to dig it up, no promises I’ll find it though.

I should also add that most articulations can be mapped directly (staccato, marcato etc.). There are some naming curiosities (quick u/d for staccato in a few instruments, e.g.) I used my ear a lot with this library.

[paulxoro]

Thanks mducharme for the elaboration!
“So to be able to answer your question properly I would need to be able to either get a copy of the map” → There you go.

@mducharme

the purpose of it is that then you can have multiple base switches all linked to the same playback technique (or exact same group of multiple playback techniques). Normally this would not work correctly as the first one would always end up being selected

Now I’m totally confused. Does it mean that this feature doesn’t work the way it was designed, which renders it useless?

@mducharme

it is possible to associate a base switch with more than one Playback Technique, and not just one

How does it work? How do I stack, for example, several legato articulations and automate the process of assigning these articulations to notes of different lengths

@mducharme

So yes, putting a slur over a group of notes will automatically result in the “Legato” playing/playback technique being selected.

But the point is which particular legato from my library this slur triggers? Does this slur recognize all of my legato articulations? Can this slur be programmed and automated the way "conditions’ are supposed to?
The E&W expression map

?

[paulxoro]

@derAbgang

If you’re interested, I can try to dig it up, no promises I’ll find it though.

Thank you, derAbgang! I really appreciate it. I hope this isn’t too much of a burden.

@derAbgang

I tried to wire the expr leg and lyr leg to the legato combinations (wasn’t always possible).

I still cannot figure out what I need to do exactly to enable “conditions”… Once I’ve opened a specific articulation on the Base and Add-On Switches tab, what should I do next? If I hit the “+” icon below “Conditions”, I will be setting conditions for the very same articulation, which is triggered by the same key switch. How do I get these conditions to be applied to several articulations (key switches of the library)?

[mducharme]

@paulxoro

Now I’m totally confused. Does it mean that this feature doesn’t work the way it was designed, which renders it useless?

No, the feature works just fine as designed, and it is very useful. What I’m saying is if the feature did not exist, there would never be any reason to create multiple slots for the same technique, since it would always go to the first slot.

As an example, suppose a library had two types of staccato (like a long staccato with keyswitch D0 and a short staccato with keyswitch E0). Lets suppose that in a parallel conditions feature did not exist (or I didn’t use it) and I added a base switch for the long staccato:

Base switch #1
Technique: Staccato
Actions: Send keyswitch D0

Then I add a second base switch:

Base switch #2
Technique: Staccato
Actions: Send keyswitch E0

This gives me two base switches for the exact same technique (Staccato). So if I tell Dorico to play staccato, which will it use? It will always just use the first one and the second one will never be used. In this case it was wasted work for me to create the second one when both are linked to “Staccato” since the second one will never be used since it will match the first one and stop.

But when we bring in conditions, things change. Then I can use the conditions like:

Base Switch #1:
Technique: Staccato
Conditions: Note Length >= Long
Actions: Send keyswitch D0

Base switch #2:
Technique: Staccato
Conditions: Note Length <= Medium
Actions: Send keyswitch E0

In this case it wasn’t wasted work for me to make two base switches for staccato, because the condition acts as a filter - in this case you would mark the note staccato and it would send D0 if it is a long note and E0 if it is a shorter note as the keyswitch.

@paulxoro

How does it work? How do I stack, for example, several legato articulations and automate the process of assigning these articulations to notes of different lengths

@paulxoro

But the point is which particular legato from my library this slur triggers? Does this slur recognize all of my legato articulations? Can this slur be programmed and automated the way "conditions’ are supposed to?

Exactly as my example above here, except lets make a few changes. Lets suppose I have a library that has a regular legato and a fast legato, and the regular legato is triggered by G0 and the fast legato is triggered by G#0. So I can make two base switches:

Base Switch #1:
Technique: Legato
Conditions: Note Length >= Short
Actions: Send keyswitch G0

Base switch #2:
Technique: Legato
Conditions: Note Length = Very short
Actions: Send keyswitch G#0

So now if I put a slur over a whole bunch of notes of varying lengths, it will automatically send the keyswitch G0 if the note is in the category “Short” or longer, and will automatically send the keyswitch G#0 for fast legato if the note is in the category “Very short”, by putting nothing more than a slur over the notes.

[mducharme]

@paulxoro

But the point is which particular legato from my library this slur triggers? Does this slur recognize all of my legato articulations? Can this slur be programmed and automated the way "conditions’ are supposed to?

I can also see from your screenshot that you’ve made a bit of a mess of your playback techniques. You don’t need this many set up.

You’ve got two marcatos in your list of Playback Techniques, presumably one is the built in one and the other is a marcato that you made. This is really confusing because choosing the wrong marcato will result in you not hearing what you expect.

You’ve also made a Martele short in your list of Playback Techniques that you don’t need because there’s already a Martele in the list.

You’ve made an “Expressive” in your list of Playback Techniques which is probably good, but along with it you’ve made an “Expressive legato” and an “Expressive fast” which you don’t need and are just confusing things.

You’ve also made a Lyrical in your list of Playback Techniques which is probably good but along with that you’ve made a Lyrical fast and a lyrical legato and those are unnecessary, and just cluttering things up, so I would delete those.

Again, you want to think of these Playback Techniques like social media hashtags. If you have a hashtag already there called Expressive and one there already called Legato, you don’t need to make a new hashtag called Expressive-Legato. Just use the Expressive tag and the Legato tag together. Same in the lyrical situation.

You’ve also made extra things unnecessary like Q legato, sustain legato, pizzicato rr, etc.

I would be more careful about your use of Playback Techniques and not make so many. You don’t need this many to map the entire library. Look at what you want to use and how you want to use things. You’re going to clutter up your Playing Techniques list needlessly this way too.

I don’t have this library so I don’t know what the difference is between the different legatos. What is the expressive legato and what situations would you use it in? What is the lyrical legato and what situations would you use it in? What is the QLegato and what situations would you use it in? What is the sustain legato and what situations would you want to use it in? And, if one of those was the “default” legato, which should it be? Of those are there any that you are unlikely to use at all and therefore don’t need to be mapped?

[derAbgang]

@paulxoro

Thank you, derAbgang! I

No problem. The Play setup is:

18V KS Master (ch. 1)
11vVKS Master (ch. 2)
VAS (10 Violas) KS Master (ch. 3)
VCS (10 cellos) KS Master (ch. 4)
CBS (Basses) KS Master (ch. 5)
… repeated for divisi channels 6 - 10
These last two are used to share articulations which won’t mess up divisi.
18V KS Master (ch. 11)
11V KS Master (ch. 12)

The following project contains everything, the play(ing|back) techniques, also used in the score. It also has the expression maps which show how to use conditions on expressive/lyrical and a few other goodies.
I have to say, the library has worn well. You can hear its weaknesses but it was in a class of its own when it released.

aus holbergs zeit - play local.dorico (2.3 MB)

Edit: I made the custom techniques visible so you can see how they’re used.. I would usually hide them.

[derAbgang]

@mducharme

What is the expressive legato […]

They mostly have to do with the speed at which the note reaches full intensity. There’s expressive (leg) slow/fast. The slow, starts off soft and slowly increases intensity (I set this up on length >=long). The fast ones reach full intensity quicker. Lyrical patches have a bit more vibrato, but are essentially set up the same way (fast or slow to reach peak intensity). The default legato in this library is usually the sus leg patch. I never use qleg as that’s a “programmed” legato and I never liked the sound.

It’s really a blast from the past discussing this library

[mducharme]

Thanks for the explanations about some EWQLSO stuff, @derAbgang - I appreciate it

I know EWQLSO is a classic library and I should know more about it really. However, I bet on the wrong horse way back when the libraries first came out. When I was getting started with sample libraries in the mid 2000’s, the big three comprehensive high-end library choices were the VSL Cube, EWQLSO, or the Sonic Implants Symphonic Collection. I went with the Sonic Implants and spent about $3000 Canadian on that at the time, which is the only one of those big three that doesn’t exist anymore. My Sonic Implants stuff collects dust now, while if I had gone with the VSL or EWQLSO, either would be still somewhat useful to me even today.

@paulxoro make sure you study @derAbgang 's map carefully. Study how each slot is set up. Make sure you hit the pen icon for each one to look at the linked playback techniques too. This is a great example of a well constructed expression map. It perfectly illustrates some of the points I was trying to make, but they are sometimes hard to make using text explanations without resorting to examples.

[paulxoro]

Thanks a lot, mdurcharme!
Now I got the point!
By the way, when might that “+” icons (“Duplicate actions” & “Add technique”) in the “Conditions” and “Actions” sub-sections come in handy? I wonder how two key switches can operate at the same time…

[paulxoro]

@mducharme

I can also see from your screenshot that you’ve made a bit of a mess of your playback techniques. You don’t need this many set up.

I did not! I just added two or three to the original maps posted on E&W expression maps on steinberg.net
Just downloaded the original map, it triggered almost none of the articulations in my score, I got got frustrated and I started experimenting with it .

[paulxoro]

@derAbgang

The following project contains everything, the play(ing|back) techniques, also used in the score.

Thanks a lot, derAbgang!!!

I noticed that you used channel switching with the Legato (fast) articulation (EWSO 18 violins).
For some reason, my EWSO Strings plugin won’t load your original presets, and I have to open each patch manually with “Omni” as a default channel setting for each plugin instance.
I looked at the description of this feature in the online manual (the excerpt is below), but still cannot figure out how channel switching works. You have to load, for example, the “natural” and “pizzicato” patches (plugin instances) separately to enable such switching. How is it possible to toggle between patches (different articultions) within a single instance of the E&W PLAY engine when the whole patch can be routed to just one channel?

“Absolute channel change actions switch to a specific, explicitly numbered channel. They are particularly useful for sound libraries that have separate plug-in instances for each individual instrument. For example, you might use an absolute channel change action to switch from “natural” on channel 1 to “pizzicato” on channel 2 in your viola section plug-in instance.”

[derAbgang]

@paulxoro

I noticed that you used channel switching

I use channel changes for a few different articulations, trills, that legato, pizzicato. I do that because 18v and 11v don’t have the same articulations.

@paulxoro

or some reason, my EWSO Strings plugin won’t load your original presets, and I have to open each patch manually with “Omni” as a default channel setting for each plugin instance.

That won’t work. Here’s what my Play instance looks like (and it really should have loaded):

Like I describe above, channels 6-10 are just like 1-5. 11 is 18v and 12 is 11v, all key-switch instruments. Note also that each KS instrument goes to it’s own output so that they appear in the mixer and can be used with the stage template. All duplicate instruments go to the same outputs, e.g.,
MIDI Ch. 1-5 go to Main, 3&4, 5&6… MIDI Ch. 6 -10 also go to those channels respectively.

@paulxoro

How is it possible to toggle between patches (different articultions) within a single instance of the E&W PLAY engine when the whole patch can be routed to just one channel?

Key switching, just like the screenshot you posted. Key switch instruments all respond to the same channel and use certain MIDI notes to trigger the different articulations. As for the channel changes, there are articulations in 11v that aren’t available in 18v so in the expression map, I tell Dorico to first change channel to 12, then issue a key switch (D1). Note also under “Off events”, I change/reset the channel.

[mducharme]

@paulxoro

I wonder how two key switches can operate at the same time…

Some libraries need multiple keyswitches. Like VSL libraries have so many that they are organized into menus and sub-menus. So you use a series of keyswitches to select an option in the top level menu, at which point it drills down into a submenu, and then you need to send another keyswitch to select a submenu from that second level menu, and then it goes down into another submenu where you choose another (and sometimes a few more levels below that). So then a series of keys has to be sent in the correct sequence to select your articulation from the tree of menu options and suboptions.

As an example with these VSL string libraries, often there is a choice of:
Regular (non-muted)
Con Sordino
Sul Tasto
Sul Ponticello
Effects

Then when you go into Regular you get the options for Longs, Shorts, Legato, Tremolo, etc. And when you go into Con Sordino you get the same options but this time with mutes. And then you go into Legato (in either regular or con sordino) you get the various legato types. And then you choose your legato type and you get choices for legato speed. And then you choose your legato speed and you get options for vibrato amounts. And then you choose your vibrato amount and you get choices for attack time (fast, normal, slow) and release time (normal, slow, very slow). So that’s a lot of options to dial down into, and drilling down into each level is a keyswitch.

With these VSL libraries, if it was organized with all options in one giant flat list (no submenus), there would need to be over 100 individual keyswitches and then you could start having problems because there might not be enough keys remaining to be able to play all the notes. So they needed to come up with creative ways to allow the user to select from this absolutely huge list of techniques.

Most simple libraries (and EWQLSO is one of those given its age) only need one level of keyswitches and so there is no use for this for you.

[mducharme]

@paulxoro

I did not! I just added two or three to the original maps posted on E&W expression maps on steinberg.net
Just downloaded the original map, it triggered almost none of the articulations in my score, I got got frustrated and I started experimenting with it .

Ahh.. Those are Cubase maps, that’s the reason why. Importing Cubase maps will often make a mess of things. Dorico expression maps are a different format.

Generally you’re best not to start with Cubase maps unfortunately. It will give you bad examples of how to do things.