Yes, it needs promoting more really. But there’s a lot Mac users that put all their trust in Apple and will just update blindly because of a 30 minute video they’ve watched on the new OS “Which is available… NOW!”
I may be wrong in this, but I see Waves desperation to get people through the door on the cheap and then hit them with WUPs later isn’t really all that customer focused to my mind.
Other than my Macbook I’m predominately a Windows user and still had many problems with Waves after various updates, combined with their paid update plans, how that affects the use on two machines… I just cannot bare to use them anymore.
Hopefully someone with experience on that combo will reply, as it appears neither you or I have first hand experience.
Edit: Just checked my Waves account and I do have v9 & v12 bundles, and one v14 plugin in my account still (Freebie?) @SriniP what version are you on? I may try them out of curiosity.
I just tried it with v9, and the installer won’t work with MacOS Ventura, you can see Waves deliberately prevent it from running. So you definitely won’t be able to use v9/v10.
v12 and v14 did work. But v12 had to run DAW in rosetta mode, so even if you had v12 you’d really want to update to v14.
The update from v9 to v14 for Waves gold (Which I have) isn’t that bad a price, was thinking it would be over £100 but it’s £55. But i’m loathed to use them again… Even though I do miss a few plugins, and that attempt to force a subscription plan makes me really hesitant in trusting them.
Thank you so much for doing this! As I mentioned, it’s not going to break my heart if I can’t use the Waves plugins any more. I did like them, especially the SSL channel strips and the CLA Mix Hub, but I have since bought a few channel strips from Brainworx when they were on sale (SSL E, SSL J, Neve, API and Focusrite) plus the native SSL mix bus compressor. I’m remixing one of my older songs now, and these are the only plugins I’m using. My only “complaint” is that there are probably not enough presets, but maybe that’s a good thing. This way, you start with a preset that gets you in the ballpark, sort of, and learn to tweak it for the specific song. It takes longer, but is probably a better learning experience, right?
Hopefully, of course these Brainworx plugins will work in the Mac - but with all the problems Waves had, these babies work flawlessly.
I see Waves as a different business paradigm, and casual users, newbies, and hobbyists especially around BF, don’t consider the future because they probably have a few other plugs where those developers follow the traditional business paradigm and expect Waves to be the same. Waves is not the same as the others.
But another Waves aspect is you don’t have to, and no one is forcing you to update. A lot of their best plugs IMO have been around for decades, and the update only adds mostly fluff…or that sad GUI scaling. There is always Waves excellent marketing that “forces” users to update to the latest version, but with a Waves update, check carefully what you are really getting.
My guess is they are looking for a buyer. It seems the industry as a whole is cashing out to private equity firms and hedge funds. None of that rarely ends well for the end user. Que smaller developers who are thankfully holding out from cash offers. A Waves subscription plan adds to the sales value…however subscription only has caused a lot goodwill loss. So at this time, I too am cautious. There are just a handful of their plugs that are irreplaceable such as Q-Clone, Bauer etc.
Anyway I have strayed far beyond the OPs question. He has BSOD so something is very wrong.
That’s quite alright! The BSOD was most likely not caused by Waves, because it hasn’t completely stopped. I have uninstalled all the Waves plugins, so technically, there should be nothing left. My sense is that Windows, as a platform, is inherently less stable than Mac - although better than it used to be.
Even now, every time I fire up Cubase, I get frequent hesitations on the mouse, accompanied by a beep - as though it is trying to reset itself after a freeze. I work around it, but shouldn’t have to. Those beeps get more frequent if I plug in a USB hub into it, but don’t quite disappear after I unplug it.
All in all, not a very comfortable environment to work in. I’m frankly sick of having to troubleshoot Windows all the time, poke into the Registry and muck around…you know. It takes enough concentration to work on the music, not to mention the engineering. I know I’d breathe a lot easier if I could trust my platform to stay steady.
Nah, I wouldn’t agree with that. As Greg_Purkey wrote, there must be something seriously wrong with your system, be it faulty hardware or a very very broken driver… I cannot remember having a BSOD ever in since Windows XP.
But I don’t need to convince you, you’ve obviously made your decision, that’s fine. I just don’t believe that MacOS is always trouble free or don’t have problems (I remember some time ago where a lot of Apple users had problems with USB interfaces after an update, something like that). “Grass is always greener on the other side” and so on.
As I wrote, I nearly was ready to give it a try, but frankly, when I saw that I had to pay more than 450€ for an upgrade from 16 to 32GB RAM, i was out. That is just robbery.
I like the nice little form factor, though.
I actually have not made up my mind (which is why I posed the question in the first place), but you may have helped me make up my mind. Obviously, if there’s something that seriously wrong with my machine, I’m either going to have to agonize over troubleshooting it or just get a new PC (especially if there’s something that seriously wrong with my hardware), and potentially run into similar problems again. For the record, I’ve never had a trouble free PC - there’s always something. When you build an open-architecture system like Windows, it’s par for the course.
Unfortunately, as you correctly point out, the Mac has always been overpriced, but the Minis seem to buck that trend. If I were to get a similarly performing Windows machine, I’d be paying nearly the same amount unless I go with a fly-by-night vendor, or build my own.
Anyway, I’m still mulling over this, but I doubt that I would get Windows again for anything other than trivial, non-critical work.
In the long term a Mac will often prove to be the cheapest option. Rock solid for at least 5 to 7 years. And as noted you don’t have to keep upgrading the OS etc.
Keep your old PC and use it as a Sample/VST server - VSL VE Pro is not just for VSL products and you can get around older VSTs that have not been upgraded for Apple Silicon.
Consider the 2nd user market. Macs are often used in Corporate Presentations etc. and are sold off after major marketing events.
I got my current MacBook Pro at 3 Months old and 55% off market price. Look around.
Thanks for that. To be honest, I’ve never owned a Mac, so all my impressions about stability and so on come from other people. I like the idea of keeping the old PC around in principle, but my studio setup is actually not that sophisticated. I write and record instrumental stuff in the 70’s/80s LA session player style (think Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton but nowhere near as good). I bring it up because all the backing tracks are done with EZ Drummer, EZ Keys and EZ Bass - then there are maybe three or four rhythm guitar tracks and maybe the same number of lead guitar tracks. I’ve never had more than 24 tracks to mix, and before I mix I usually render all the virtual instruments to WAVs, so my mix-ready session is all WAV files. So, I’m guessing that my demands on the system are not that high.
In that vein, I watched a video last night on YouTube that tested the Mac Mini M2 Pro (base model) with Pro Tools in native mode and Rosetta mode (I now know what that means… ). The gentleman had half a dozen plugins on each track. He played back something like 250 tracks in native mode and right around 200 odd tracks in Rosetta mode before experiencing any lag while he scrolled back and forth.
I can tell you for sure my i9-10900 PC would have choked at a fraction of that load with Cubase. Heck, it lags even with around 20 tracks - not badly, but a touch.
To your other point about the used market, yes, it sounds good, but I wonder if it might be safer to just pick up a new Mini Pro 2. One thing I do know is that I’m going to spend a good long while thinking about it.
I truly appreciate all the comments and advice here, I agree that some of my problems could be specific to my machine. But I’ve had shaky Windows machines for too long.
I’m also now a Mac user after many years of self-assembled and specialised build PCs. I’m really glad I changed. MacOS is lovely to use (although Windows has got much better over the years) and the new Apple silicon is blisteringly powerful. I think the price comparison between Mac and PC is not straightforward. I think its true that in most cases the initial outlay for Mac is higher (although the new Mac mini may be changing that). However I never had a PC that I didn’t spend hundreds of pounds on regularly (more memory, new graphic cards). For what it’s worth, my Mac experience has been much smoother than PC for DAW use. The only current slight irritation is that some sound libraries (Spitfire Audio) are STILL not compatible with Apple silicon and so have to be used through Rosetta 2, which means I run Cubase using Rosetta 2. There’s still plenty of power on tap but it’s still irritating.
Thanks a million, Steve. Your post reflects my thinking, albeit not from personal experience (in my case)! I’m honestly not turned on by being a tech wiz who opens up his PC at the drop of a hat and tries to figure out bits and bytes. After a full career in IT (I retired 12 years ago), I find most tech to be very boring, so my preference is for a platform that just works, keeps working, and obviates the need for me to be constantly wondering whether to update the bios, or figure out which interrupts are being hogged by the peripherals. All I want to do now is make music - and mainly for myself. I find fooling with guitars and amps to be far more fun.
Regarding price points, at $1299 (US), the Mini 2 Pro seemed truly blistering, as you pointed out, in the video I watched last night. Like I said, my PC couldn’t have come close. I doubt if I can find a Windows PC that matches that kind of performance at that price.
I’ve been working in commercial radio and music production for the past 35 years and there is NO WAY I would ever move from PC to MAC.
Why? Quite simply because my Dad uses MAC for his TV work (he’s a documentary producer) and whenever I visit him he’s moaning about how his software has stopped working because his OS is out of date. This has never happened to me using Cubase on Windows. Cubase is rock solid on my Wndows 11 installation.
Good luck if you decide to move over to MAC. May I suggest you keep a Windows PC handy for those times when Apple update their OS and your software “says no”
What territory are you in? Will let you know if I hear of post exhibition sales.
Yes easily get 200 plus tracks in Pro Tools on M1/M2. PT is still the industry standard for TV and Film work. Create in Cubase or whatever. Export Audio to PT - Gain Stage and Mix etc.
With the M series RAM is critical the more the better 16Gbyte is minimum for Audio work.
Whenever possible (and where practical) mix down in audio - yeah expect some flames for this comment. BUT It’s the tried and tested mythology. Machine overheads are a lot lower.
). The gentleman had half a dozen plugins on each track. He played back something like 250 tracks in native mode and right around 200 odd tracks in Rosetta mode before experiencing any lag while he scrolled back and forth.
for this comment. BUT It’s the tried and tested mythology. Machine overheads are a lot lower.