[quote=“Grim”]
My first test at this point would certainly be to try a stereo export…if this sounds the same when re-imported then the split files and pan law are confirmed as the problem.
I don’t actually see the answer to this? When importing the STEREO export back to Cubase does it sound the same as playback or not?
I do see you say at one point that the export through control room sounds the same as the one not through control room. So that’s good.
But this statement worries me…hopefully just not exactly what you mean or things get more complex.
And for the Control Room monitoring is sound bit different then if i monitor directly from output
like i said before not much but enough
So do you really mean that what you hear through control room sounds different to switching to stereo out (which would be something you hadn’t said)…or are you just referring to the fact that it sounded different AFTER mixdown and re-import.
Null testing doesn’t work with plugins…I’m afraid you proved/disproved nothing with any of that.
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Hi ! when I import the stereo or the split files it’s sound the same as the session if I monitor with the stereo output but if go back to monitor with the control room the session sound different better stereo image and the way I intended the mix it but the files that I imported sound the same as if I monitor out of the stereo output?
And for monitoring question yes when I monitor my session with the control room it’s sounds better better stereo image and the dialogue sit perfectly the way I mixed it but when monitor with stereo output dialogue are a bit louder and I lose a bit of that stereo image so from now on I will be mixing only monitoring with my stereo output so I will be getting exactly what I’m hearing!
So your telling me that if I mix with plug ins when i re import my exported mix it will never null completely with
the session ? Ok I did not know thanks
The last thing I need to test is monitoring with the control room doing real time bounce I mean spdif out to spdif in
To see if sounds the same. I wish we could select the control room out as a option when doing a audio mixdown export !
And for monitoring question yes when I monitor my session with the control room it’s sounds better better stereo image and the dialogue sit perfectly the way I mixed it but when monitor with stereo output dialogue are a bit louder and I lose a bit of that stereo image
Not sure where you can go from here but I can assure you that if set up correctly there is no audible difference between stereo out and control room out. I just flipped between them to be sure this wasn’t some bug introduced in recent versions but the output is identical.
Unfortunately as this is a system setting I can’t offer to take a look at a cpr as it wouldn’t transfer any control room setup.
I apologise for this but nevertheless, I’m going to ask one more time to be sure…you’re 100% certain there are no plugins in the control room inserts…you have the rack open and are seeing the empty insert slots??
While you’re there you also have the control room volume knob at unity gain?
Hi !
Sorry lol this is the last i promise ! I’ve attach a rar files with all my settings screenshots in PNG from the sessions,
If you could look at them to see if you can notice something wrong in my set up? it would very hepful and again thanks
for your help? And 1 more question if i export 2 mix with all the same export setting 16 bit 48 Khz stereo interleaved wave file
the only difference is Control /room on and control room off and i import them in a new session no plug ins 2 stereo track
going directly the main output, Why won’t they null 100% ?
I don’t see anything wrong with your setup at all.
If the session that you are rendering has plugins it may well not null, vst instruments almost definitely won’t null…if the re-imported files aren’t sample accurately aligned it won’t null.
If you export only audio no plugs then you should be able to make it null 100%. What difference signal are you seeing?
Also I think you already realise this but turning control room on or off isn’t doing anything there…CR is not in the render path. If you export 2 consecutive mixes without changing anything they should have similar differences.
Ok lied lol i did a few more test? Monitoring from the CR makes a difference when you do an export audio mixdown ! i did a real time audio mixdown export and if you what to hear want your bouncing audio you have to monitor from the control room on if not you don’t hear anything ? So i did 2 exports one in real time and not real time both with CR on Monitoring and they almost null 100% and then i did another export not in real time of the same sessions everything exacly the same except i’m monitoring from the main stereo output and CR is off and instead of almost 100 null i get maybe 75 %? so i’m confused? it can’t be the same? If you what i can send you files?
Ok i will upload those tomorrow morning and yes they sound different the 75% one when i inverse the phase what i can hear is mostly the dialogue and some music but weird phasing going on and the levels on the master go up to mabe -40 to -50 db
Thanks
JFR
Just jumping in because I see the word ‘phasing’. What happened to me when first starting to use the Control Room is this: I have 2 output channels configured in CM, one for speakers and one for headphones and most of the time they get the same feed. Both are active in CR but routed to separate outputs on my audio interface. One time it happened that I had both channels (speakers and headphones) active on the speakers output in my audio interface and that created this ‘phasing’ sound. While all sounded good on the master bus in the mixer I just couldn’t figure out what caused the issue in the CR. After making sure the headphones out was turned off on that output channel in my audio interface it sounded exactly the same as the master bus as it should. Not sure if this is applicable here but just my 2 cents…
I just ran the same test here. rendered with CR enabled twice and CR disabled twice. None of the files come anywhere near nulling (appx 20db down) and the difference as I expect is mostly reverb.
BUT every exported file I made nulls with every other file in the same way…leaving the same sounding difference signal at the same kind of level.
What seems odd is that you say the dialogue is what you mostly hear when nulling the two files…will be interested to see if it does the same thing here.
There certainly seems to be something weird going on there.
The difference signal between your two files has a really fast modulation (voice sounds like daleks!!)…doesn’t sound like the typical difference from plugin non linearities… Even the test tones are leaving behind this modulated noise.
Just to be absolutely sure I also re-exported and imported the same audio with and without Control room in my project and they both immediately nulled 100%.
I think we need to establish something else for certain on your system.
Could you import just one of these files into a new empty project. Set l/r locators to a short section with dialogue to save time and run an export with import to project ticked. Flip phase and check for null again…do this for CR enabled and disabled and see if you still get a difference on the CR enabled one.
Hi
I"ve done what you ve asked and it’s weird so i used the file that i sent you that was CR off so get this when i re exported the one with CR on when i switch the phase it null 100% and then i did it with control room off and it nulled 100% with no phase ? if the phase switch on they both played full sound and if i take the two files re imported CR on and CR off they null 100%
JFR
EDIT: Sorry I misread your post re the null…It would be easy to miss that you left phase on while exporting. I would try again checking carefully.
But this aside they still are completely null-able which is good!
This is good…not so weird really…so with pure audio there is no difference in the two renders.
This suggests the issue is not a settings issue but must be something in your project that is causing the difference when rendering CR on and off.
So if you have the patience to keep testing I’m sure you can eventually find the root of this problem. Save project under a different name so you don’t mess anything up in the real thing before you start.
I would probably try bypassing all plugs first…if both renders null, try turning some on and retry, if they don’t null maybe try actually removing all plugs.
One thing I’m just wondering that I hadn’t previously thought to ask…do you have any timestretching/warping or anything like that going on at all??
Actually you where right they all null at 100% in the new project with no plug ins So it’s got be a plug -in in the session but why does it affect CR on and CR off differently ? that’s what i don’t understand? anyway thanks for help ! The only plug -in i use that may cause this Waves stereo imager plug -n? i will do more testing with the plug-ins and i more question in the pool beside the file for the algorithm section it say élastique pro or standard M ? what is that ? and its say a tempo 120 4/4 ? I m post audio why is cubase giving tempo to my files?
Thanks alot
i will try to find the plug- in
JFR
Well why it is different with CR enabled/disabled I don’t know…obviously it’s not supposed to be that way so I guess we can call it a bug.
Cubase will always add a tempo to your files. I wouldn’t worry about it. Algorithm column shows the different timestretch algorithms…doesn’t mean they are in use…just that these ones will be used should you use some type of realtime stretch on that file.
ok thanks!
When there is no plug-ins at all in the session CR on or CR off as no effect on the mixdown export ?
I will let you know if i find the plug-ins that causing the problem
JFR
You’re very welcome…good to know you traced it to a single plug.
I wonder if maybe the J37 could be ignoring the plug settings and rendering with flutter at max rate and depth when CR is switched on but not when it’s off…I can imagine this might sound a bit like that difference signal in the null.
