Yes, but from that perspective Nuage is boutique, and for potential customers it suffers from exactly the same thing as other items which is a high price. Almost every time this discussion come up on Gearslutz people will inevitably say certain things:
“It’s ridiculous that X doesn’t exist!!!” (all caps probably)
Me: Posts photos of Nuage, s4, s6, Fairlight
Them again: “You’re an idiot for posting things that cost that much!!!”
Me: “Ok, so you should have defined your complaint a bit more narrowly then: Things are too expensive, it’s not that they don’t exist.”
And then I’m an a-hole for pointing that out.
But anyway, I think having a small market is a valid explanation for why we’re not seeing more of this stuff. I mean, hopefully someone will come back and give us what we want, I’m just “moderately optimistic” about it…
It’s not about what is available, it’s about what users want (or don’t want) to pay for it.
There is a reason why things are expensive, as you say, limited marked.
I understand why some users can’t afford certain things, but still want to have.
I can only say that our Nuage systems gave our company a 20% productivity boost.
If you can make money out off a 20% efficiency boost, then it is a good investment.
If it’s an investment “for your own pleasure”, then it is expensive.
So the price is not the determing factor, it’s the return on investment.
When you’re making a boutique guitar you need some wood, some simple tools and one human being who knows what they are doing.
When you intend to mass-produce a highly technical box of electronics with servo-driven moving parts that must adapt to multiple layers of hardware and software created by companies you have no control over, and who are constantly making changes to the capability of that software as a part of staying in business, it is a most different endeavor.
Boutique guitars and plug-ins do not involve 10% of what’s required to create a DAW controller. And if either of those don’t work out well all you really risked was some programming time or a nice looking piece of wood.
I believe that explains much of what this thread is debating. Behringer makes really cheap controllers with moving faders. Get one! Or if you want something sophisticated, pony up the money
To me this entire thread sounds like somebody saying they just want a good car for a fair price. Great get a Toyota Corolla or equivalent. No I don’t want that what I really want is an extremely nice Lexus or BMW but I want it for the price of the Corolla.
Personally I have a NUAGE when I work at home because I am a professional in post.
My colleagues told me “you’re crazy it’s too expensive”.
Yes, it’s true. But it’s my everyday work tool. This is not my hobby
When I’m a sound recordist, I use a Sound Devices and not a Zoom. Why? Because it’s my professional tool and I trust in Sound Devices. When I record a voice, I don’t use a SM58 but a Neumann …
Each tool according to a need or a function.
I totally agree with Fredo; this saves me about 20% of time compared to an ARTIST system (I earn about 1 day every 4 days) and for a producer, I have an advantage over others
there is no equivalent in terms of integration with Nuendo.
All other systems running with Nuendo are just handyman tools.
sorry
I love the idea of having a computer keyboard and mouse, small midi keys and moving faders all within the reach of my hands. When I bought our first WK Id I had Lothar deliver a system that had room for a normal wooden table in the middle. (cut in 2 parts)
I personally think that large consoles are more of a hinderance for my workflow than helping me to get things done. (then again I do not do theatrical mixes in large teams where they might help a lot I admit)
I went with the S3 because it was the only option in the smaller form factor that does not have an entirely crappy feel to it although I would have loved to have an option to pay more for better faders.
You HAVE TO HAVE A MONITOR to know what the module is doing. Now Avid is doing the same thing with the S1, which is ridiculous! It’s like buying a car with the all of the windows blacked out! At least with the Artist Series you had a small window over each fader telling you what channel you were on an the status of that channel. I was really surprised when I realized this omission on the Nuage fader module.
I think Fairlight nailed it when they made Xynergi. It’s what the S3 SHOULD have been, modular, well built and professional! You could scale that system all the way up to a large format console. But if you had a small shop with a small space, you could buy just the master module with a couple of fader modules (or none) and have all of the function of the full console!
I would love to have been able to purchase this setup for use with Nuendo. But, of course, with all the tribalism involved with the market, this wasn’t possible and now, with the Black Magic Design takeover, even their hardware is unreliably diminished!
Indeed, a screen 23 ‘or 24’ is essential for the fader module. It was my doubt at first.
But finally it does not bother me because I already worked with 3 screens: one for the timeline, one for the console and one for Edits, Mediabay and plugs. The image comes out on a TV by a black magic card.
I lost 10cm in height because of the height of the console compared to the AVID. So I bought a desk adjustable in height. My tweeters are at the same height as my ears.
I never looked at it that way as they always seemed to market it as the bottom half + a screen you would buy yourself. I do see your point though of course.
Actually the s1 has screens for track names etc.
The one thing I’d change about it is that ‘lip’ in which you rest the tablet. I’d probably either make it so it could change angle or be detachable. But at any rate it’s a clear upgrade from the Artist Mix as far as I can see.
Yeah, I think BMD controllers are aimed squarely at their own ecosystem, and probably for good reason to be honest. They’d possibly be stretching themselves a bit thin supporting a big device like that on more than one platform.
As for Avid the s4/s6 are modular though, at least to some degree, just like the s1. So sure, we’re living with Eucon at that point but the upside is the scalability, size, design, and deep integration with PT should we want it (which also presumably affect resell value).
Actually, the hardware is no longer “all that!” Since BMD took over, their blending of their software with the Fairlight hardware has been like ramming a square peg into a round hole. I was totally ready to “jump ship” altogether. I HATE Avid and their constantly killing innovation by their competitors!
Euphonix was brilliant with Eucon, it was totally inclusive. Avid killed it by making it PT centric, in their never ending quest to force everyone else into the PT paradigm! Tango was great, same as Eucon, totally inclusive. Avid killed them. They wouldn’t share Eucon and drove them out of business!
So, Fairlight looked like the way to go. It had all the audio and all the video and you could drop in any file from anyone into their environment. The only place they felt short was in MIDI features. So I was all set to take the plunge. BMD bought them and it became a total nightmare just to get info on the hardware. I had a friend who worked for a Fairlight Post facility as Chief Engineer. He said all of their hardware was going nuts trying to function with the BMD updates. All of their DREAM and Xynergi units were dropping features, JUST LIKE ALL NON PT EUCON DAWS!!!
So, that was the end of that. He says they MIGHT have it figured out by the end of the 1st quarter 2020. Meanwhile, I’m stuck with AVid. It’slike trying to get paroled!
I think if we want to not commit fully then this is just the way things are and we’ll just have to deal with things not being perfect.
If we on the other hand want to commit to a DAW and its “eco system” then both Pro Tools and Nuendo provides excellent products. I think Nuendo is better and I think it’s a better value, but both are very good. So I really don’t think it makes much sense to lament the current poor performance of Fairlight controllers because once you’re at that price range you might as well look at either Avid or Steinberg instead, and just go all in with s1/4/6 or Nuage.
For what it’s worth I find Fairlight software to be pretty clunky and the BMD people aren’t really doing that great of a job promoting it or teaching it to people that aren’t from the audio side of post. I can imagine that their controllers will actually help get beyond some of that clunky stuff but it’s still not really sitting that well with me.
Oh it would definitely be Nuage! I grew up on Nuendo. So, my choice is made. I won’t have any choice but to go to Nuage. But then I still need to find something for the video side of the equation.
That’s WHY I was looking at Fairlight/BMD. I could’ve gone with an S3/Dock rigg. But Avid won’t make it modular, to allow 2 units wtih a Dock for a 33 fader setup. According to Avid, it was “too complicated” to do and they had other bugs that were more important to fix. Funny, they didn’t have any problem with Artist Series and they don’t have any problem making S1’s linkable. So the story is obviously BS.
If people can do 33 faders on an S3/Dock for $12K (List!), they won’t entertain spending $100K for an S6! So now they’ve come up with an S4, which maxes out at 24 faders at $50k+. That still won’t beat the $12K Double S3/Dock combo. So, S3 will never become linkable. THIS (along with a “Comcast” type reputation for product support and leaving product lines in a heartbeat) is exactly why I don’t like dealing with Avid. So Nuage is THE ONLY CHOICE.
I’m watching all the online places for a good deal on a used system. Even then, it’s very large for the space I’ve got AND I’ll still be looking for something to control Vegas 16. This is frustrating as hell. Ironically, if they’d JUST FIX THE HARDWARE MIRRORING THE DAW ISSUE, almost none of us would be bothered enough by the other things to even care.
So, I ended up purchasing the Avid S3 and so far I’m loving the workflow! Still getting used to the interface and shortcuts, but had a chance to mix a small orchestral track today. I tried to use only the controller with no mouse and keyboard and must say I was impressed with the Eucon + Nuendo integration. It runs a lot deeper than I expected it to.
The top row lets me control almost everything I could think of while mixing Sends, Routing, Plugin Parameters, Nuendo’s EQ and Channelstrip. I even tested it out with Instrument tracks and controlling and automating synth parameters and it worked well. The layouts feature is going to be awesome for mixing large sessions.
I suppose VCA spill doesn’t work with Nuendo and I also couldn’t get multi-track selection working. I use Q-link a lot while mixing, so it would be great to be able to select multiple tracks and adjust levels or drop plugins instead of using VCA’s.
The list of Eucon configurable Nuendo functions available for the Softkeys is quite impressive as well.
I’d like to share my opinion about it. Nuage or Avid S family seems to me very expensive devices in order they offer control over software. I use since years a Yamaha DM2000. It cost was around same as current Nuage system, but it’s a great digital console as well a DAW controller. Its DAW control is deep with Nuendo, and you can do almost things like Nuage. I don’t want to compare them, but DM2000 offers much more than Nuage when it was released, and now you can use it too very smartly. So one option is to get one of these second hand consoles with cost around 3000€ and use as DAW controller. I use too a Shuttle Control Pro2 and a MC Transport. An iPad with duet software permits me to control de channel view with the touch screen too. So, Am I pretty near to get the control of a Nuage? I don’t think, but the performance I get with this setup is very good to me. Since Nuage is too expensive, I think I’ll continuo with my setup until a true new controller is released in a reasonable price.
Myself, I have been enjoying the Slate Raven 2 MTi touch console.
Use 2, or even 3. Really makes sense when doing surround mixing being able to use your finger to pan, and with one button switch back to the mix console and use up to 10 fingers to control different tracks including effects sends.
I tried the Raven for like 10 minutes in a store and realized that waving my hands in the air 10 hrs+ straight would just kill me… I’m exaggerating… but the concept does nothing for me…
It’s a supplement not a replacement in my opinion. Just use it for what it does well which is several things.
Importantly when you’re on two or more monitors using the Raven has no effect on the mouse and cursor on another monitor. It’s a big plus that your mouse and cursor are totally independent and touching the Raven does not impact them on the monitor they are on. This is at least the case on Pro Tools, the only system have used the Raven on to date.
Meanwhile, I’m stuck with AVid. It’slike trying to get paroled!