extra notes in trills/tremolos: Instructions say to use Apply Human Playback to remove extraneous notes that Human Playback added to the score. Once I open the “Apply Human Playback” dialog, it’s not clear what to do next. Has anyone else with this problem successfully removed the extraneous notes? If so, how did you do it?
Sorry for my ignorance @John_Jayne , are you referring to “instructions” and “dialogue” inside Finale?
The “instructions” come from Dorico’s blog post “Translating Finale projects to Dorico using MusicXML.” The dialog is in Finale.
Hi John – First, are you finding any extra notes with ornaments when you import MusicXML? If not, no cause for concern!
But if you are, the instructions in the blog are saying to remove these using the MIDI tool in Finale before exporting. See this page for details of what Finale is doing, and links to documentation of the MIDI tool.
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I imagine that you want to set Human Playback to “None”, as doing otherwise can leave hidden wibbly notes in the score, which then show up in the imported document.
Reply to Mark J: I don’t know whether there are any extra notes. I don’t even know how to search for trills/tremolos in those huge scores, though I could spend a year and a half learning how to do that, if necessary.
I was trusting “Apply Human Playback” to find any extra notes (if any) and remove them, thus saving me the trouble of learning how to search for trills/tremolos.
But maybe I misinterpreted the Dorico instructions completely, and maybe “Apply H.P.” really doesn’t perform such tasks that are “too good to be true.”
Reply to Ben W:
Human Playback was set to None at the time that I created the Musicxml files. However, H.P. had been turned on in the past, and therefore, the extraneous notes (if any) had ALREADY been added to the score.
So even though HP was “None”, you still got the hidden notes in the XML?
Oh. I’m sure there’s another method for removing them in Finale. But in Dorico, it’s easy enough to enter the correct note over the wibbly ones; unless you’ve got loads of them.
I don’t know whether there are any hidden notes or not, since I don’t know how to search for trills/tremolos. I suppose I could spend a year and a half learning how to do searches in Finale.
But, anyway, Dorico says that I COULD have hidden notes. I was hoping (perhaps against hope) that “Apply Human Playback” could determine whether the hidden notes are there and then to remove them.
Maybe that’s to good to be true!
Reply to Ben W:
Human Playback was set to None at the time of creation of the Musicxml file.
Yet, when I opened the Musicxml file in Dorico, there were indeed extraneous notes plainly visible! The reason is obvious: Human Playback had been TURNED ON AT VARIOUS TIMES IN THE PAST, even though it was set to None during creation of the Musicxml file.
I then opened the MUSX file in Finale and could not see any extraneous notes.
Evidently, one cannot remove extraneous notes manually in Finale, but he can do so in Dorico. Now, if only Finale’s “Apply Human Playback” can perform a miracle and auto-remove them!
From the bit of Finale documentation I read, I got the impression that playing the piece straight through with Human Playback on should reset the underlying midi data after it is done.
Reply to Mark J:
Dorico’s blog “Translating Finale projects to Dorico using MusicXML” gives me the exact opposite impression.
Hi @John_Jayne .
I have seen this a lot. In some cases Finale has inserted hidden notes in Layer 4.
Because I never use Layer 4 for notes myself then it is easy to “show only current layer” in Finale, select Layer 4 and delete everything residing there.
I am not aware something inserted in layer 3 but when current layer only is showing then one could quickly scroll through the document and verify. Of course before any mass deleting, please have a backup…
I thought that, whenever I open a MUSX file in Finale, all layers show up at once. Therefore, if Human Playback has added anything to any layer, then I would see it when I open the MUSX file.
However, I don’t see any changes when I open the MUSX file in Finale. I only see changes when I open the Musicxml file in Dorico.
There are 2 options to hide notes (I am aware of):
- on layer that is “hidden when inactive”
- hidden notes on visible layer
I forgot to cover the hidden notes before and I am not sure which one of those 2 bothers you at the moment.
But to not run in circles. Do this:
Make all hidden items show clearly. 33% is enough but you can choose up to 100%.
Then go to a specific problematic spot in your score and check what is there.
If the notes are in certain layer (usually 4) then you can delete all those systematically as I described before.
To blame Dorico that it is not deleting extra notes for you is not reasonable. It should not delete any items a user has entered. It cannot read minds. It is a Finale issue that HP has to do this.
Unerlying MIDI data and hidden notes are totally different things in Finale.
I have had numerous cases when Finale has entered hidden notes (harp glissandi for example) in my score. Because I have had hidden notes 25~33% gray I have always spotted them out instantly.
Underlying MIDI data are note/controller values that are altered.
Indeed, your imagination is quite adequate. Finale does this sometimes with trills and also harp glissandi. Hidden notes in layer 4 (or 3). I have always spotted them instantly because I am a magician and have found the appropriate setting in Finale prefs to make invisible items visible. Not everyone has this superpower though.
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I am not blaming Dorico for extra notes.
I am blaming Dorico for unclear and incomplete instructions.
Oops, maybe that is what forums are for – to ask for help in clarifying unclear instructions. Then I have no right to blame anyone for anything. I should just present my case in the forum and ask for help.
My apologies if I have inadvertently offended any fellow forum participant.
Did you get to the extra notes in Finale. Did you find them and got the issue solved?
I don’t think anyone is offended. Trying to help finding the ‘hidden’ items.
Never found the alterations made by Human Playback in the MUSX file. But I guess I’ll just follow the work-around suggested by Ben W. Namely, if H.P. has made changes that it couldn’t reverse, then I’ll just leave them in the Musicxml file and fix them in Dorico. I’ll consider the issue resolved.