A: Select one or many rack instruments and convert them to track instruments.
B: Select one or many track instruments and convert them to rack instruments.
Both A and B needs to have options for the channel settings (like should inserts, sends, routing and other things be included) and how to handle midi tracks and events assigned to the instrument.
(I did a question about this a while back but that was not a proper feature request so there was no way for anyone to vote for it.)
The entire system of Rack Instruments is awkward and clunky. You can’t disable tracks (without them losing their routing, you can’t export them as track archives), and workflow wise: It’s severely limiting that you can’t get the audio returned to the track you’re sending the midi from.
In my opinion: Keep it around as a legacy system, and just add the multi-timbral functionality into normal instrument tracks. So that you can add as many Midi Inputs and Audio Outputs as you need into normal Instrument Tracks.
And Make it possible for an instrument Track to send Midi to another Instrument Track and receive the corresponding audio back in return.
Not if you use it every day. I prefer them because I can route MIDI tracks to whatever Rack Instrument(s) I want.
The point is that the MIDI tracks trigger the Rack Instrument, and the audio is routed from the Rack Instrument’s outputs to your audio tracks. You can disable and re-enable them without losing any routing data. It’s a different concept than Track Instruments–but for me it makes more sense, since MIDI doesn’t make sound–it just triggers things that make sound (either external rack instruments, or VST Rack Instruments). Some DAW users seem to get confused about what MIDI does, because they associate it with particular VSTs and with audio. For me, it’s just sequencing data that’s used to trigger VSTi which generate audio (which is recorded to audio tracks).
Do what works for you–but it’s not a legacy system.
Routing tracks to other tracks just to get multi-instrument functionality is not for me. I’m also not too fond of the idea of having a separate plugin instance for each track on a project, when I can have just one in the rack, with 16 to 64 (or more) instruments in one VSTi plugin window.
That could work, but the more tracks you have, the harder it would be to make sense of it. Having all data flow one way is a less complicated approach: MIDI->VST->Audio Outputs->Audio Tracks->Groups->Stereo Out.
One can still route MIDI tracks to an instrument track hosting a plugin. I.E. 16 MIDI tracks routed to an instrument track with it’s channel set ANY.
If you want to convert a rack instrument to an instrument track.
Save a preset for your rack instance.
Make a new instrument track based on your preset. Set it’s MIDI output to ANY.
Point your MIDI tracks to the new instance.
You can delete the version from the rack.
Don’t forget you can change the end point of several selected tracks at once by holding ctrl-shift (or was it alt-shift?) and changing in the track inspector.
Now, there are a couple of options if you want the material in the MIDI Tracks to reside on the instrument track.
Quick and dirty:
Solo the MIDI tracks you want involved.
Set the loop locators so everything you need is between them.
Select the target Instrument track.
Make sure the cursor is at the beginning of the project.
Do MIDI/Merge in loop.
You’ll get a copy of everything from the MIDI tracks frozen into a part on the Instrument track. Such an instrument track is all ready to export as a ‘MIDIloop’ file. These can be auditioned instantly in Media Bay, or brought into a project all set up and ready to go.
Another option is to drop open lanes on the Instrument track, and drag the MIDI parts from the MIDI tracks onto an empty lane of the Instrument Track. Unfortunately it has to be done one track at a time.
I.E. Select all events on the track. Hold ctrl and drag to the new lane (move the parts). Or, ctrl-c to copy, select the lane and do ctrl-v to paste a copy (to copy).
To do it the other way around and convert a multi channel Instrument track into MIDI tracks. You can right click the Instrument track, select all events. Then MIDI/dissolve the by channel.
Save a preset from the Instrument track. Recreate it as a Rack instance using the preset.
While it sounds like a lot of steps, it’s not too bad. You can come up with project logical editors and macros to bind sequences of commands together, and optionally bind key commands and such to your macros.
I use it every single day, for several years already and I absolutely despise it. I have 80% of my template hosted in Vienna Ensemble Pro using Rack Instruments.
Maybe I didn’t explain it properly: I also want to route the MIDI from multiple tracks into the same plugin. But why does it have to be a rack instrument? Why can’t I just route Midi from 50 different Tracks into one Instrument Track? and get the each audio stream returned seperately from that Instrument Track?
Why do I have to use the awful menu in the right tab to manage the rack instruments, where I can’t even use colors or Track Icons?
Why can I not export Rack Instruments as Track Archives and import them into other projects?
Why can I not disable any tracks that are part of the Rack Instruments without them completly forgetting their routing once they are enabled again?
Why does it have to create this ugly tiny folder of Rack Instruments that can’t be resized or deleted as long as the Rack Instruments exist?
Why is it so unbelievably hard to keep an overview over the routing structure?
Why do we need a completly seperate system for managing multi-timbral instruments in the first place?
The entire system is so terrible, it’s beyond saving. It should be overhauled completely and ideally just be replaced by giving Track Instruments the capability of handling multiple midi Inputs and multiple audio outputs, being able to functionally do what exactly what Rack Instruments do.
Even protools (probably the worst DAW for creating Music with midi and VST instruments), that has largely given up on being anything more than the default Mixing DAW, has a way superior system for managing multi-timbral instruments compared to the disasterous Rack Instruments of Cubase.
(And yes I know about the pseudo work around for Track Instruments around of using Midi Channels, but 16 is not nearly enough when working with Vienna Ensemble Pro, I’m stacking 100+ instruments into every VEP instance and the fact that you can get only 1 stream of audio returned from the Track Instrument makes is also a gigantic limitation.)
If your plugin truly supports more than 16 MIDI channels, then it should be registering more than one ‘port’ with the host.
The same goes for potential Audio Busses. Plugins register their maximum potential with the host.
You can direct MIDI tracks to either type (Rack or Instrument). Just change their end points.
If you’re working with a multimbral plugin over several MIDI channels, and it’s hosted in an Instrument Track, simply change its MIDI Output channel to ‘Any’. If you wish to record MIDI performance data onto such a track, Adjust your keyboard/controller, and the Tracks 'input channel on the channel required. If you’ll be working with a key editor or something, again, change the input channel to what you need when inputting events with the mouse.
Cubase does have options to ‘dissolve’ parts into new tracks by ‘channel’; and, options to ‘merge tracks’ into a single new part (preserving the channels of individual events).
It’s not uncommon to have an empty Instrument Track (No MIDI Data in the track), and many MIDI tracks sending their output there. This works pretty much the same as hosting as a Rack Instrument. The main difference here, is you have the option to put MIDI data on the instrument track if you like.
Going with Instrument Tracks to host your VSTi plugins has some advantages. You can still use lots of MIDI tracks and connect them to that Instrument Track. It makes it a bit easier to export sets of tracks, and import them back into different projects with your plugin/instruments all set up and ready to go. It also allows you to import things directly from other projects and end up with connected instruments all ready to play. A big help when building different templates, or expanding a smaller template based on previous projects.
Examples and further Info
Here I direct 13 MIDI Channels to use an Instance of Opus. Same process as if I’d hosted Opus as a Rack instrument instead.
Opus channel output is set to ANY. I have no MIDI parts on the Opus Track itself.
If I wanted to export this as a single track-file archive that remains properly connected to Opus, then I select all the tracks, then export them together.
I click the top track, hold ctrl and click the bottom one so they all select, then export my 'selected tracks:
Also be aware that you can import a lot of things from one project file into another. One thing I don’t think we can directly import from a project file is the state of a ‘Rack Instrument’; however, if one uses Instrument tracks as described above, You can import MIDI>Instrument tracks all connected and ready to play.
If you want to preserve the state of plugins loaded as a ‘Rack Instrument’, open its GUI and save a preset. This will go in your Media Bay, and you can use it to bring such a configuration into any project you like at any time.
So, you can certainly use more than 16 channels from MIDI tracks directed into either method of hosting an instrument plugin (Rack, or Instrument Track).
Some plugins support expanded protocols that can support more than 16 virtual channels using a special CC, keyswitch, or some other event to let the plugin know it needs to use a given instrument or sound it has loaded.
I.E. MIDI Channel 1 could have several instruments set to listen over Channel 1. CC120 might be used to cycle among all channel 1 instruments. 120=0 would be default. 120=1 might tell the plugin to swap to a different instrument that also listens on channel 1. Etc…
Just like with a Rack Instrument, you can get as many audio channels as the plugin registers for an Instrument track. If VEP is only registering a single stereo pair, perhaps there is an option somewhere in your setup to force it to register more audio busses and perhaps MIDI ports as well?
I.E. I sometimes use ‘bidule’ as an instrument server. In this case I’m treating it kind of like a poor man’s version of VEP. I can go into the system registry (Windows), or plist (Mac), and instruct bidule to always register a specific number of possible MIDI and Audio inputs, then again MIDI and Audio outputs. I typically set mine up for 4 MIDI inputs/outputs (64 MIDI Channels), 8 channels audio in (I go with more than I need for sidechains and such), and 64 channels of audio output. I could have bidule register WAY MORE with Cubase should I need it. Here’s an example of hosting several instances of EW Play for word building Symphonic and Hollywood choirs through bidule. Over in Cubase I’d simply need to activate audio channels 1-16, connect MIDI tracks to this bidule instance, and I’m good to go. Note: Blue pins/cables in the network are for audio while white pins/cables are MIDI.
Whatever the number of MIDI and AUDIO ins/outs get registered with the host, by default Cubase typically initializes a plugin with just one Stereo Bus active. ALL registered MIDI ports typically show up in Cubase right away without intervention. To expose more than the initial set of stereo audio inputs, I activated side-chaining, and all 8 of them got activated and exposed within Cubase.
For the audio outputs, you just need to activate the audio channels you wish to use, and instruct your instruments in the plugin which one(s) to use. The reason they start it up with just 2 channels active in the beginning, is more often than not users only need a stereo pair. If it opened up ‘full capacity’, users would get spammed with dozens of faders on the mixer they have no intention in using. This way users can activate them one by one ‘as needed’ or quickly toggle everything to full potential.
Try it. Load a plugin that supports Multiple Audio busses (Sonic or Groove Agent SE will do) as an instrument track. You can right click the plugin in the Rack to activate;
or, Open the plugin UI, right click the top right corner of the plugin (the blue box area below the Red window closer). Activate the channels you want.
Once I’ve set up all these audio busses, I must direct the instruments Hosted in HALion to use whatever Audio Channels I like.
If you’re working with more than 16 channels in your MIDI tracks and/or parts to a single Instrument Track, you can’t do a ‘merge in loop’ to a single instrument track as I’ll describe later to set up for exporting a ‘MIDIloop’ file because there’s not a way I know of to also define a specific port (exception being a percussion track with a Drum Map enabled) at the ‘event level’. With track archives, you can export MIDI and Instrument tracks together.
If however, if you limit your Instrument Tracks to working with 16 channels and a single MIDI port, then you can merge things onto the Instrument Track itself, then export as MIDIloop. The advantage to MIDIloop is it’ll go into your Media Bay, where you can tag it up. It can be auditioned from right there in Media Bay without pulling it into a project first. Notice the ‘Previewer’ pane.
If you do decide to pull it into a project, it’s all set up and ready to play…instrument(s) and all. Yes, you can export multiple Instrument Tracks together into the same MIDIloop.
Using Rack Instruments correctly is painless, effortless, and transparent. It sounds like you’re convinced that Rack Instruments are just defective Track Instruments.
“Why does it have to be a Rack Instrument?” Because routing MIDI from multiple tracks into the same plugin is what Rack Instruments are for.
Yeah, you can route MIDI from 50 different tracks into one Instrument Track–but an Instrument Track only has one audio track–because it’s just one track. It’s a sibling of all the other tracks in the project window.
What exactly do you have to manage in that window? Once the instruments you want to use are added, you don’t need to use it or even need to have it visible.
The only things I use the VSTi pane for are to enable/disable instruments, and to (sometimes) open/close the plugin editors. It’s basically just there to indicate what Rack Instruments you have added to the project.
I’d probably consider matching track colors to Rack Instrument colors if it were possible–but not having them isn’t an issue. It’s impossible to select a MIDI track and not know where it’s routed.
Track icons in the Rack Instruments list wouldn’t make sense, as they are not tracks.
The same “awful” VSTi pane displays all of the Track Instruments, and if you use hundreds of them, it really is awful.
Because Rack Instruments aren’t tracks, exporting them doesn’t make sense. If you want to use some Rack Instrument in another project, it takes just a second to add it–or you could use a template that already has your Rack Instruments added to it for new projects.
I’m not sure why you think that’s the case. Are you on version 15? I disable/re-enable MIDI tracks (which are routed to Rack Instruments) all the time, and the routing configuration is always preserved.
That’s not an issue–but if it bothers you, you can hide the whole folder.
It isn’t. When you select any MIDI track in your project, you can instantly see which Rack Instrument it’s routed to. If you’re looking for that information in the VSTi pane–you’re just looking in the wrong place. The VSTi plugin window shows you which instrument channels are in-use, but there can be any number of MIDI tracks routing to each instrument channel.
Why do physical rack instruments exist? How do they work? Virtual Rack Instruments are a completely different concept than Instrument Tracks. Their purpose is to facilitate many-to-one hierarchical relationships between MIDI tracks and virtual instruments with multiple outputs.
It seems like your actual complaint is that Instrument Tracks don’t have the same functionality as Rack Instruments. It’s interesting that your proposed solution is to get rid of Rack Instruments.
If you don’t find them useful, or don’t want to use them-- you don’t have to. The existence of Rack Instruments isn’t holding you back from making music, and getting rid of them won’t make your workflow any easier.
“No one should use this feature because I don’t like it.” is not a convincing argument.
You say Rack Instruments are “disaterous,” but you haven’t managed to explain what’s wrong with them, or what would make them better. It seems like most of your complaints are about perceived limitations of Track Instruments.
Routing ~100 MIDI tracks into a sibling Track Instrument track and then routing ~100 audio outputs from that track into 100 sibling audio tracks, would not be an ideal approach even if you could do it. “Audio returned” is only a Track Instrument concept–it doesn’t apply to Rack Instruments.
All of this is possible if the plugin suports it. I mean, you can route any amount of Midi Tracks to the plugin of an Instrument Track but if you need a separate midi channel on each track then this is the plugin’s responsibility to provide them.
Same applies to the audio output. If you need 50 different audio outputs the plugin must be capable of providing them. It doesn’t matter whether you use rack or track instruments in this regard.
You can do that with either track type (Instrument or Rack).
The good news is that if a plugin registers multiple audio busses with Cubase, you CAN activate and use them if you want. You can do it with either method of hosing a plugin (Rack, or Instrument Track).
Same more than 16 MIDI channels. If a plugin truly supports more than 16 channels, it will register multiple PORTS (16 channels each) with the host. Be it hosted in an instrument track, or as a rack instrument, you can direct MIDI tracks to whatever ports/channel you want.
I use both all the time. No problems. Here lately I’ve found going with a combination of MIDI and Instrument Tracks offers some minor advantages, but it’s not a big deal either way. It’s just a few clicks if I choose one approach and decide later I want the other.
Scroll up to my previous post and open the “Examples and further info” note. I give some examples where Track Instruments can come in handy if one want the ability to export track archives, MIDIloops, and such as that so it’s easier to bring things into a project ‘all connected, set up, and ready to play’.
Exactly. Sorry I didn’t see this until I’d already begun responding.
Interesting discussion. I like and use both rack and track instruments.
An option to saving and loading via a preset is to right click the source instrument and choose “Copy Setting”. Then you right click the target instrument and choose the “Paste Setting”. (Se image below.)
