Copying and force duration

I’m trying to copy a measure where ‘Force Duration’ has been applied, but the result is rewritten ignoring the forced durations of the source.

Is there a way to maintain the property during the cut and paste?

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In general Dorico does maintain not only Force Duration but also other properties set on notes (and I have just tried this out with an arbitrary example to make sure), so I think we would need to see the specific project in question to be able to advise what might be going wrong.

I’ve reduced to the minimum, from scratch.

If I try to paste the first bar to the second one, ‘force duration’ is ignored. (577 KB)

The tuplet used in the first bar has the option ‘force duration’ turned on to obtain an half note. Copying/pasting doesn’t preserve it.
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Hi Daniel,
sorry to bother you again.
Could you confirm that?
I’d like to not have to recreate this kind of notation for every bar!

I haven’t had a chance to look into this in detail. At first glance it does seem to be wrong. I think you can work around the problem using R for now, provided you want the new figure to appear immediately after the first one.

Thanks Daniel.

If you can, please let me know if that’s a bug and, in case, if corrected for the next release.

Just to let you know that I have asked one of my colleagues in the development team to look at this, and I’ll come back to you in due course. I’m afraid it’s highly unlikely that this problem will be fixed in the 1.0.10 update, but we will investigate as and when we can.

Hello! I’d like to know if there has been any progress on this. When I copy-paste a passage that has been written entirely with Force Duration, Dorico 2 renotates the tied rhythms. I really think that once durations have been ‘forced’, they should stay that way - or there should be a ‘paste exactly’ option. (or perhaps there is - have I missed it?!)

What if you copied whole measures but pasted them starting on beat 4 of a 4/4 measure? Rhythm over bar lines present a challenge which Daniel and his team have to deal with, and that makes preserving forced duration more complex than a yes or no proposition.

To my knowledge they are still working on this for the future. No implementation date has been announced.

I’m copy-pasting into exactly the same rhythmic position, just into a different instrument. Dorico respells my rhythms when ties are used and they contradict the assumed subdivision of the bar (and yes, I know I could change this, but a simultaneous musical layer in other instruments does conform to the subdivision). But the principle is that I simply can’t understand why copy-paste doesn’t do exactly that. To be clear, I have inputted everything in the copied bar with ‘force duration’ - including the rests - so there really should be no problem.

In general, this does work as described in this thread, i.e. provided you are pasting into a rhythmic position at the same offset relative to the barline in the same meter, then the notes and rests should be pasted with the Force Duration properties preserved. Can you produce a minimal case that would allow us to reproduce the problem and look into it?

Yes indeed… attached is an example screenshot. Vc1 (entered in Force Duration) was copied to Vc2. The problem only occurs with tied notes.

Sorry to keep finding problems in your beautiful piece of software!
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Thanks, Clement, we’ll look into this when we get a chance.

Sorry to keep returning to this issue, but this habit of Dorico is starting to cause me quite a headache.

Very frequently, I enter rhythmic values that I want to be tied. Everything is entered with Force Duration. Then Dorico insists on respelling the tied note ‘correctly’: here’s an example…

I enter this in Force Duration:
… highlight it, and press T. I get this:
There is something about the way that Dorico treats tied notes that is overriding Force Duration. What can I do? Sometimes adding a tie ‘piecemeal’ seems to help, sometimes not. In any case, shouldn’t Force Duration mean exactly that?

…forum attachment problem, sorry - here is the ‘after’ result

When you tie two notes together you are effectively deleting two notes and creating a new one. The new one cannot be trusted to inherit any of the properties of either of the notes that were previously there.

If you enter the tie DURING note input, not after, you won’t suffer from this problem.

Thank you, pianoleo. But I frequently want to extend or alter a tied note, so it isn’t always possible to do it as you suggest. For example, for placement of dynamics, or just to extend a very long tied note (over several bars of laboriously entered forced durations…) by a little bit. There really should be some way to tell Dorico that: yes, I meant it to be written that way, and I want it to stay like that! It’s a case of the programme trying to be more ‘musical’ or ‘intuitive’ than me. And, by the way, the 9/16 bars I wrote were actually entered as [4+5]/16 - so Dorico isn’t even trying to follow the bar subdivision I wanted - it’s just defaulting to 3+3+3/16.