Corelli rhythm problems

Dear specialists
how can this be written in Dorico? I couldn’t even write the first measure…

Thank you for your help

Welcome to the forum. Do you mean the 9-tuplet in the top staff?

-Enter the first three beats
-Set the duration to 32-notes (press 3)

  • semicolon
  • 9:8, Enter
  • when you get to the 64th, simply change the value.
    -use T to tie the notes after entering them.

Just in case you’re looking for “authentic” notation: it’s not currently possible to position stems on the “wrong” side of noteheads in Dorico.

Actually it’s a “9 1/2 : 8” tuplet if you notice the dot on the trilled note.

So Set the duration to 64-notes (press 2)
semicolon, 19/16, enter
Press 3 for 32nd-notes
and enter the notes…

Or, if you want to make a “modern” edition of this, figure out where the short notes actually split into the halves of the beat, and adjust the tuplets (and the number of beams on the notes) accordingly.

This is a nice example of music notation that makes perfect sense if you want to play it, but wasn’t written so that a computers could understand how to count it!

Oh yes you can.

Just flip the stem and drag it to the wrong side of the note head in engrave mode.

Admittedly it’s not perfect, because the notehead itself still slopes the “wrong way”.

I tried this, but in fact it isn’t a 9-tuplet! For a 9-tuplet the last two notes should be 128 and not 64. So I tried 19:16 with weird results.

Rob was quite right that it’s a 19:16 tuplet. The trick is to use Force Duration to make sure all the 32nds appear correctly. Otherwise a few of them get displayed as tied 64th.

You can then hide the bracket and the number via the properties panel at the bottom.

I’m in a generous mood, so here’s the whole excerpt (with tuplets showing)

Since most was already explained, I only have a few notes:

Force duration must be on while entering all triplets.
It’s best to tie afterwards
The 3rd beat of bar 3 is notated strangely in the original and most likely is meant to start with a dotted 16th instead of a dotted 8th, but I did it according to the original. The 8th notes in the other parts can always be moved with the note-spacing tool (the circles … not the squares.

Dorico handles this beautifully, but in most of these you have to count 64th notes, although you can use 32nds in a few of them.

I have included the Dorico file: (456 KB)

Ok, so it can be done, thank you! I tried writing the notes first, then selecting them and make them into a tuplet which gave me strange results. In fact for writing these things it would be a nice feature (request!) to be able to just write the notes, then selecting them and say “this is a quarter” or “this is a dotted eighth note” instead of making the whole calculation, prepare the tuplet, write the notes and realize that you miscalculated and start from scratch…

Sure, which is somewhat already possible. The difficulty here is that the notation is “wrong,” so as you found in your third example, Dorico doesn’t know how you want it beamed. For most tuplets, retroactive tuplification (is that a thing?) works just fine. Darn that Corelli.

You can in fact “tupletize” after the fact (there is a good explanation on how to do that in the release notes), but in this case, you would likely have to re-enter the some of the notes using force duration anyway since Dorico may detect ties underneath the structure of those triplets. But on the plus side, do be aware than once you create a particular triplet, you can copy and paste the signpost and enter notes afterwards which seriously speeds up the process.

You should have stuck to the first edition. No problem reproducing that in Dorico!

According the IMSLP, the ornamented version was “supposedly” what Corelli performed live on one occasion, and the edition was approved by him before publication. So the note lengths aren’t literally exact - and unless somebody had an elephantine memory, the notes probably aren’t all literally exact either!
Corelli first edition.png

If you’re determined enough, you can overcome even that hurdle with the Notehead Set Editor, though you’ll need to create the flipped notehead externally as a graphic or as a glyph in custom font.

Certainly, in my world, pretty much everyone plays from the Gasparo Pietra Santa facsimile you quote above, and freaks freely on the divisions/ornaments etc … But there is no question that the 4th Mortier edition, the first with the ornamental realizations AFAIK, has notable pedagogical value and is a wonderful starting point for baroque violin students.