cre...scen...do...mol...to....

Hello,

In an aria in “Roméo et Juliette” of Gounod, there is the following dynamic marking:
cre…scen…do…mol…to…

Dorico provides a wonderful option for “cre…scen…do…”, but I could not the same option for “molto”.
I only get the following result:
Screenshot 2019-03-04 07.21.00.png
Could “molto” be separately inserted?

If you override the Text on a gradual tempo marking to something like “cre scen do mol to”, and set the gradual style to “rit - ar - dan…”, you should be able to fake it.

(Though hopefully the functionality for this kind of marking is expanded!)

This works just as Luis says.

Note what happens if you add an underscore ( _ ) to the left of “molto” in the suffix.

Just a space is sufficient, Leo: you don’t need the underscore as well. And you can use a hyphen in the middle of molto, too, so you can enter " mol-to" to get the result you want.

Thanks for pointing that out, Daniel. Useful knowledge :slight_smile:

Dear fellow Doricians,
I like the possibility that we have to simply have a gradual dynamic or tempo followed by a dashed line. But I am still waiting for a “proper” (at least, in the literature that I have seen) dashed words solution, which does not include a dash line at the end of the words. In other words, I would love Dorico to offer crescendo molto – – – – and cres – cen – do mol – to versions. The latter is impossible to achieve yet, and I find the existing cres – cen – do – mol – to – – – – unusable (because it feels wrong). Sorry to bring this back, I searched (for a little while) and found : https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=131128
I must admit I am quite deceived by Daniel’s answer stating that those details that do annoy me have been made deliberately. I’ve been searching in Gould’s Behind Bars and found nothing about those dashed gradual dynamics (or tempi) markings. I’d kindly ask that a “justify” option is added (so that the area in which the dynamic change or tempo change spans starts with the beginning of the word, and ends with the ending of the word, as I’ve always seen). Thank you for taking this in consideration. Or let me know if there is a workaround for these!

@ LSalgueiro, pianoleo and Daniel

Thank you for the tip.

On the right panel, there are the following options under “Gradual Dynamics”:

  • poco
  • molto
  • poco a poco
  • niente

I am expecting that the following procedure works as well:

  1. clicking molto on the panel and
  2. checking on Gradual Style on the properties panel, and selecting cre - scen - do
    Number 1 and 2 could be reversed.

However, I think this would be the first thing which users do firstly.
Am I wrong?

You’re not wrong, but Dorico handles the “molto” modifier for a gradual dynamic by prepending it to the start of the dynamic, as you can see by what the program does when you add this modifier.

I’ve definitely asked for this in past as well. All the times I’ve needed to use this kind of marking, I’ve had to use its “justified” form – meaning I’ve had to fake each and every one of them, by setting up a fake endpoint and then dragging the terminal back. Thankfully, I’ve needed it solely in small-scale vocal music or chamber pieces, or else I’m sure I’d run into troubles doing parts…

A have a related question. The answer is probably already in this thread, but I would appreciate if someone could make an “Idiot’s instructions”.

I am engraving a score with gradual dynamics that doesn’t fit with any of the four gradual dynamic styles in the properties panel (hairpin, cresc./dim., cresc… and cre - scen - do). What I need is: cresc. - - - - – that is, abbrevation followed by hyphens. Is there a way to achieve this? Thanks.

Hi Runter. What you want to do is very easily done. Check the Dynamics section in Engraving options, or select the dynamic and apply the appropriate property in the Properties panel if you want to change locally one or two dynamic markings.

Thanks, Marc. However, in the properties panel / engraving options, I can only find ways to set the gradual dynamics to these four:

Hairpin
cresc./dim.
cresc…
cresc - en - do

I need kind of a combination of number 2 and 4:

cresc. - - - - -

Am I missing something? Is there a way?

Ok, sorry, I did not understand that you wanted hyphens. It’s not among the choices we have… Hopefully the team will come back to this when more important stuff is dealt with!

In case someone will search for this particular issue and come across this thread, here is the solution to what I wanted to achieve, described four posts above this.

To achieve dim./cresc.with hyphens – that is, abbreviated words for gradual dynamics followed by hyphens with different length and gaps from what is offered through the four available options in the properties panel:

Properties panel > Gradual style > cresc… .
Properties panel > Continuation line style > Dashed.

Now, I want longer dashes and longer gaps.

Engraving options > Dynamics > Gradual dynamics > Text with lines > Advanced options > increase the values in Dashed continuation lines > Dash length and Gap between dashes. In my case, values 1 and 5 respectively helped me achieve the appearance I needed for my engraving work.

That setting is nice, Rune, but you asked for something like hyphens, and vertically, they are higher than what you can achieve with the Engraving options, right? I mean, these are on the baseline, while you’d want them middle line, or am I mistaken here?

Indeed, Marc, I was being imprecise, and my described settings is the second best solution. Not quite what I wanted to achieve, but under these particular circumstances this will pass as a solution equivalent to what I originally wanted, and one step better than the cre - scen - do available under Properties panel > Gradual style. But yes: searchers to the solution to my initially described question: Beware, my “solution” is only halfway there.

Edit, October 8: The mentioned options available under Engraving options are also locally available when selecting the gradual dynamic and opening the Properties panel of Engrave mode.

I have a different question in the same area: I set a cresc. in my score and found a hairpin at the corresponding position in the part. Deleting this and replacing it with cresc. in the part caused a hairpin to appear in the score. I guess that I may have inadvertently reversed a default that gives identical representations of these dynamics in score and parts. If so, how can I return to the original? My daughter told me how to correct the representation problem with the options in the Engrave bottom panel, but I would not want to have to do that in every part, nor to remember to start with a hairpin in the score when I wanted cresc. in all the parts, so as to have to correct it only once.

My supplementary question is to ask the designers why they allowed the reverse representation facility. I can’t think where I would want it.

I started with Dorico 1, but have continued using Finale for urgent projects until fairly recently. I am now using Dorico 3.1.10.1032 and still getting faster.

Set the option you want in the score, and then do “propagate properties” to make the part the same.

There are reasons why you want different properties in the score and parts. For example you might want to move dynamics text like “f” or “p” to the left of a note in the score to save vertical space, but leave it in its proper place in the part. (And for a transposing instrument, the space issues might be different for the staff in the score and the part in any case).

For some reason (and I definitely don’t agree with it) a hairpin is considered equivalent and interchangeable with the words cresc. or dim. in Dorico. Displaying a change of dynamics in either form is ‘just’ a property, which you need to propagate from the score to the parts (and not the other way round). It’s one of the few things in Dorico that really annoy me.

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Thanks Rob and Peter. I take Rob’s point about needing different properties, but also share what appears to be the majority view that crescendo/diminuendo are not equivalent to hairpins in players’ perceptions, most particularly in conversations between a conductor referring to one and a player seeing the other in the same bar. Dorico ought to make it impossible for the user to produce this situation inadvertently