Cross-staff hairpin placement

I want this hairpin below the lower staff:
Hiarpin 1

But when I try to move it there in Engrave mode, this happens:
Hairpin 2

How do I avoid this?

The attachment lines in your screenshot show it’s attached to the top staff. In Write mode, attach it to the bottom staff (either by cutting and pasting or by using the Move To Staff Below function).

That works. Thank you pianoleo. I had thought there might be another way. And I had forgotten the trick to adding clefs in the other staff, but a previous post of yours cleared that up.

But now I have another problem. I can’t add the octave sign to the last chord. Nothing happens when I try to add octave signs to any of the notes I moved to the upper staff by means of the move function. But I notice that they are there when I move them back to the originating staff.

Octave sign

If you cut the last bar from the lower staff and paste it into the upper staff, then cross-staff the second beat down with M, the octave sign will work as you expect.

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That works @iaincd. Thank you. I was concerned that it would affect the hairpin, but it doesn’t. Excellent!

But that got me thinking. Suppose the entire cross-staff passage had required an octave sign? I discovered that if the first and last notes of the passage were in the originating staff, an octave sign will span the whole three measures despite the cross staff notes in between.

But how would that affect the hairpin? It seems that having the first and last notes originating in the upper staff now doesn’t affect the hairpin at all. The hairpin stays put under the lower staff! What?

Octave sign and hairpin

Once the hairpin is attached to the lower staff that’s it; it stays there. You could use alt-M to copy it down, as @pianoleo said above, or even invoke the caret and add the hairpin to the lower staff with the dynamics popover/ spacebar before you have any notes entered at all. Once it’s there it’s there, so the octave sign will not affect it.

Thanks @iaincd. That explains everything and the light dawns. Perhaps it is self-evident to others, but I didn’t realize that dynamics were or could be attached to a staff; I thought they were attached to the notes and attaching a dynamic to a rest didn’t occur to me. Is this explained in the documentation?

Dynamics, like many other items, are attached to beat positions in a staff. So when they are moved from one instrument to another, the notes play as marked (and, lacking any dynamic level back to the beginning, halfway between mp and mf.) Dynamics apply to both staves of a 2-staff instrument unless assigned to a specific voice (with the caret and Alt-Enter).

Thanks @Mark_Johnson. I think I was confused about this because dynamics can be moved to the next note, but not the next beat or division of a beat if there is no note there. For example I tried to move a f from a note to the following rests without success. Yet I could assign a dynamic to the following each of the rests, something that it had never occurred to me to do.

To move dynamics to the right according to the current rhythmic grid resolution, press Ctrl/Cmd-Alt/Opt-Right Arrow.

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It did take me a little while to find it in the online manual. I think this is what we are talking about:

Thanks @johnkprice, that explains it. I move dynamics with the mouse, which limits my experience.

Yes that must be it, @iaincd. I appreciate you finding that. So items are not associated with notes, they may just happen to occupy the same rhythmic position. So when one selects a note to add a dynamic, one is not selecting a note, but a rhythmic position. It’s a an important distinction.

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Obviously, Dorico is a software you’d better use with as little mouse as possible :wink:

For me, writing out music is like drawing, since I was a hand music copyist for many years. Typing it in goes against the grain, which is one reason I am a latecomer to Dorico. So I am adapting Dorico to my work style, which may use the mouse more the most users.

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I just used the option-command right arrow with good effect, @johnkprice. Thanks again.