I’d like to know how Cubase 7.x is performing on a Mac using a Bootcamp(ed) Windows.
i thinking to switch but this is a serious decision cause my Apogee Ensemble Is not compatible with Windows, so I will have to buy a new audio interface. And have to transfers everything (presets, plugins, …) to Windows.
Cubase is performing pretty well on my Mac but I’d like to see if I could get better performance at Low Latency (128).
I don’t want to start another Mac/PC war here, I have a pretty decent computer and I will not switch to a real PC (well, not for the next 3 years).
I’ve been running Cubase on a Bootcamped Mac Pro for years with great results. However I took delivery a couple months ago of a new Mac Pro Trash Can (8core) and decided to run the tests found at dawbench.com. I don’t know if it should be attributed to the Mac Pro or Cubase 7.5 or both, but there was negligible difference running in OS X or Windows with the same hardware.
I also tested several Thunderbolt and USB audio interfaces. The interfaces certainly had differences in performance, but the performance of each interface was similar between Windows and OS X.
I don’t know if your mileage will vary on a different machine, but at least on high end hardware the OS performance gap that used to exist doesn’t seem to be there any more. I have gone back to OS X for Cubase as I prefer the way the interface works.
I’ve been looking at the new trash can Macs as well and am curious how the machine reacts to moderate to heavy cubase projects, specifically the CPU temps and the large ventilation fan. Can you share your experience so far?
Unfortunately I haven’t really monitored it. It is in a climate controlled machine room that stays 68 degrees. But even if it was getting hot, i wouldn’t notice the fan turning on because it’s not in the same room.
Haven’t had any glitches or issues with cubase gumming up though and I push it reasonable hard.
The new MacPro is definitely not a machine designed for music. You’re paying a lot of money for a beefy video card (which you don’t need) and zero space for additional internal storage (which every DAW machine needs.) If you consider the amount of computing power you can buy with a Windows machine (actually you can buy two or more for that kind of price…) and the complete flexibility regarding storage, video card (or lack thereof, since the newer Intel graphics are more than adequate for DAW work), etc., I think switching to Windows would STILL make a lot of sense.
Consider that for the same price of a new MacPro you can buy an entire VEP network, with a master and two slaves, at least nine internal drives and cases that very successfully reduce fan noise (like the Anthem Sonata III.) You can’t get any of that with an Apple machine. External drives aren’t exactly whisper-quiet, just think of all the additional fans you’re bringing in your studio… Oh, and if one day you decide you want to do some serious video editing, all you need is to buy a pro-level video card, like what you find in the MacPro (only way less expensive…) Like I said, flexibility is the key…
Sooooo true I. I totally agree with your very informative post.
However if you are running a recording studio for a living,
one cannot discount the value of ‘marketing’.
I finally had to face facts. Right or wrong, the Mac name sells itself.
So we just grabbed one last week with two 4k monis to come.
(we are still in the set-up/testing stage)
When you are trying to pay yer mortgage
and the client asks 'do you have the new Mac pro and you are
able to say yes; and what day and time do you want to come in.
is in MHO a beautiful thang.
Just try to explain a VEP network to a client and watch their eyes roll back in their head.
and their $$$ walk out the door.
Besides, over time any 'puter will end up paying for itself.
‘Give them steak and they want Mickey Ds’.
So I sell them Mickey Ds. and pay my mortgage on time:)
Well, I’m pretty sure most people here don’t run commercial studios, so whatever brand prejudice is common with the “cool guys”, it’s totally irrelevant when you’re trying to build the best DAW system money can buy. And it’s nothing the hipster’s brand has available at this moment, as I just proved. Which is why, for example, Hans Zimmer dumped all his macs and replaced them with custom-made PC’s (and it’s not like he needs to save money on gear… Just using the best tools available for the job.)
BTW, the younger generation is starting to get quite tired of their parents’ allegedly “superior” tech brand (also because the younger generation is averagely more computer-literate…), so the Apple myth won’t last much longer… In fact, outside of the US, Apple is already way less common than it used to be. Which explains why Mac and iPad sales are considerably declining, especially abroad. One day, Apple may completely stop making macs (you know that if mac sales drop dramatically, they will not keep making them, right? After all, they’re just another mega-corporation in for huge profits and nothing else…) Will the “cool guys” then use iPads as DAW machines instead of Windows workstations and still brag they have the best solution for pro audio?
Partially true. It is first and foremost designed for video editing. Though it’s kind of like saying a Lamborghini is definitely not a machine designed for American freeways.
You’re paying a couple hundred at most for this assuming you go with the lowest option.
Internal, yes. but this is the paradigm change in the new Mac Pro. I’m actually a fan of the design because not every user needs 3 extra bays or 4 extra bays or whatever and some users need TONS of storage. The great thing about the new design is you’re not using up chassis space if you don’t need it and you can add as much storage as you want via a thunderbolt chassis like the Blackmagic Multidock. You do pay extra though for the ability to house more storage. But if you go with simple usb 3 external drives, they are hardly more expensive than the bare drive is anyway.
This is completely incorrect. Yes you can by cheaper windows machines, but you could also buy an iMac that is cheaper. The point is if you price the SAME hardware (Same Xeon CPU, same RAM, same high-end flash drive), PC’s from HP, Dell, etc. are similar in price and sometimes MORE. The video card is the only thing you’re actually stuck with that you don’t need, but a PC with the same specs without the vid card is only going to be a bit less.
The bottom line is whether you prefer working in windows or OS X. If OS X, get a Mac Pro. If it’s too expensive, get an iMac. If you like working in Windows, get a windows machine. The adage that macs are SOOO much more expensive is simply incorrect and anyone telling you otherwise is not comparing it to a PC with similar hardware. They ARE slightly more expensive, but I like the environment and the stability. So for me it’s worth it.
My setup:
-Mac Pro 2013 8 core (this is the fastest Mac Pro for audio…the 12 core has lower clock speeds and hence is not as fast for what we do)
-Black Magic Multidock (Thunderbolt) with 4 Crucial M500 SSDs
-RME RayDAT PCIe audio card housed in a Magma Thunderbolt chassis.
-Apogee Symphony I/O front end converters
I have noticed a definite difference in speed and snappiness compared to my 12 Core Mac Pro Tower running bootcamp with Windows 7
Was it a big chunk of change? Yes. Was it worth it? For me, since every minute counts and the ability to push Cubase harder frees my creativity more, absolutely. It has already paid for itself in productivity gains over the past 3 months.
However each individual has to asses how much ROI something that pricey will actually give.
But as I mentioned before, pick the platform you want to work in, then pick the machine. The cost/performance difference between the two worlds (when equally compared) is not that much.
Wrong, you can build a PC with similar specs to the cheapest MacPro for about $1,700, meaning that you’re paying $1,300 for a video card with way less performance than a $900 nVidia Titan (or two 780’s in SLI, which give you even more performance.) Apple has tried to convince people that the Mac Pro is actually a bargain, but it isn’t. The cost of the Intel Xeon E5-2630 is a mere $649.99. An equivalent mobo to what Apple offers is about $350. RAM and SSD’s are cheaper on the open market than what Apple charges you for. And unlike with what you buy from Apple, component prices start going down the moment the hardware is released. You do the math…
Also consider that the E5-2630 is NOT a great CPU for audio and that the (much cheaper) 4770k actually beats it where it counts for audio applications, including clock speed and single-core performance. With a Windows workstation, you can choose any CPU you want. With Apple, you’re stuck with what they think you need. And they certainly don’t care that your computer is not used for what they think it should be used… (Like I said, the new MacPro is NOT designed as a DAW machine.)
Once you overclock the 4770, it will smoke the E5-2630. Particularly in applications where clock speed is king (like audio.) Needless to say, Apple machines can’t be overclocked.
Internal, yes. but this is the paradigm change in the new Mac Pro. I’m actually a fan of the design because not every user needs 3 extra bays or 4 extra bays or whatever and some users need TONS of storage.
Paradigm change? LOL, another useless buzzword invented by Apple (like “ecosystem”) to convince you that internal drives are bad… Unfortunately for Apple, DAW users do need at least three drives, even if you use the “magical” mac. And you certainly don’t want them to be all externals with one or two extra fans per drive. Also consider that Thunderbolt so far has been a huge failure and that USB 3.0 is nowhere near as fast and efficient as SATA III. I use USB 3.0 drives only for backup and turn them off when I record. They’re really not good for DAW use.
The great thing about the new design is you’re not using up chassis space if you don’t need it and you can add as much storage as you want via a thunderbolt chassis like the Blackmagic Multidock.
Great thing? LOL, Apple can convince you of anything… What’s so great about the need to add an external box in a format that few manufacturers have adopted and that it has a ridiculous cost? (Which means it will NEVER become mainstream…) I suppose the great “paradigm change” includes paying $700 just for an EMPTY Thunderbolt box, right? Did you calculate that when you claimed that the MacPro is cheaper than a Windows workstation with lots of internal bays at no additional cost?
But if you go with simple usb 3 external drives, they are hardly more expensive than the bare drive is anyway.
Like I said, USB 3.0 is nowhere near as efficient and fast as SATA III (despite “official” specs) and like I said, every additional external drive is an additional fan or two, an additional eyesore and takes additional room.
This is completely incorrect. Yes you can by cheaper windows machines, but you could also buy an iMac that is cheaper. The point is if you price the SAME hardware (Same Xeon CPU, same RAM, same high-end flash drive), PC’s from HP, Dell, etc. are similar in price and sometimes MORE.
Read this article and you will learn that Apple is fudging the numbers, as they usually do, since their fans just take everything they say as revealed truths and never question them:
Yeah, you can buy an iMac (imagine having to buy a new monitor every time you change your computer, most likely the same exact one…which Apple doesn’t make but just buys from LG and charges you an extra $300…), which is a ridiculously overpriced machine for what it offers. You can build a PC that outperforms the iMac in every way for way way less (see example below.) And it’ll be a more silent and cooler machine (I’m talking temperature, not fashion…) with as many internal drives as you want and as much RAM as you need, because it won’t be soldered to the mobo like Apple does, to make you pay three times for additional memory.
The bottom line is whether you prefer working in windows or OS X. If OS X, get a Mac Pro. If it’s too expensive, get an iMac. If you like working in Windows, get a windows machine. The adage that macs are SOOO much more expensive is simply incorrect
That’s what Apple wants you to believe, but it’s far from the truth. See my example below. Your word (or I should say Apple’s word…) vs. my FACTS.
But as I mentioned before, pick the platform you want to work in, then pick the machine. The cost/performance difference between the two worlds (when equally compared) is not that much.
Just because you’re repeating Apple’s PR lines, it doesn’t mean they automatically become true. There’s still a huge difference in price, not to mention that Apple forces you into buying THEIR idea of a computer (which is certainly far from an ideal DAW), while assembling a PC gives you unlimited flexibility. But hey, when your fans can be convinced of anything (including that internal drives are somehow bad…), there is really no way to make them reason. Like I said, in a few years someone like you will try to convince me that an iPad is the best DAW system. Because Apple will say so once they phase out the mac (and it WILL happen…)
Just try to think about this: how do you explain Apple’s gargantuan profits if, as you said, their machines don’t cost much more than Windows equivalents? Like a certain ex-POTUS would say, “it’s fuzzy math!” Remember that Apple doesn’t make ANY component, they just buy them on the open market like everyone else. And no, they’re definitely NOT sprinkled with magic dust. Which is why Lenovo, ASUS and Toshiba computers are actually more reliable than Apple’s, despite what people in the Apple fandom believe:
What’s really eye-opening about the above is that Apple ONLY sells expensive computers, while all the other manufacturers that best them have plenty of economical lines which use lesser expensive components supposedly less reliable… Despite that, they still beat Apple. Which means their top/business lines are WAY more reliable than anything sold by Apple. But then again, if you’ve ever touched an HP ZBook, you know that it’s way way way better (as in better components and better built) than a MacBook Pro for about the same price.
Coming back to prices, here’s a little demonstration…
iMac
i7 3.5GHz
32GB RAM
512 GB SSD
GTX780M 4GB (crappy GPU, M is for mobile, since the iMac has a small PSU or else it would catch fire…)
8TB storage (Thunderbolt box with 2x 4TB)
i7 3.5Ghz $299 (4770k, better than Apple’s 4770s, which is not overclockable)
850W CPU (Corsair or similar) $100 (way better than the TINY PSU in the iMac)
decent mobo (the iMac mobo is nothing special) $150
super-duper copper cooler (way better than Apple’s. iMacs are always so hot…) $80
32 GB RAM (Corsair Vengeance, better than what Apple uses) $325
512 GB SSD $220
GTX780 4GB (the REAL THING, not the crappy mobile version) $500
8 TB internal storage (2x 4TB) $400
Sonata III case (soundproof) $150
27" LG screen $250
Windows 8.1 $69.99
Keyboard + mouse (Logitech or other top brand, you can spend way less, of course): $70
grand total: $2,613.99
And with even BETTER components (as shown in the comments.) And without the GPU (which you don’t need for DAW work), it would be even less at $2,113.99. Can you ask Apple to omit the GPU and let you use the 4770’s built-in graphics? Of course not. Like I said before, flexibility is key…and Apple will NEVER offer you that.
Were you saying about Apple desktops not being much more expensive than a similar Windows system?
Next time you hear something from Cupertino, don’t just assume it’s true: actually research it and try to verify it. You will definitely learn a lot…
I’ve been running Bootcamped windows with Cubase, UAD and protools for 3-4 years now and am extremely happy with it.
in reply to the MAC PC row…
Indigo … i wholeheartedly agree with you on everything Mac PC in the argument.
Theres one thing that 5 DIY pcs down the line later I realise though. There is virtually no second hand market for old PC hardware. No-one wants to buy the DIY PC that I put together in 3 years time when I want to build a new one.
I bought a second hand Mac Pro a few years back for a good price. Theres contentment that once I move on to a newer model I’ll probably get at least a few hundred euro for this machine. As it stands I have 3 other older DAWs sitting in the storeroom.
