Would be nice to have an option to try.
If you would know, what steps to do to evoke the situation while quit, that would be great.
Would be nice to have an option to try.
If you would know, what steps to do to evoke the situation while quit, that would be great.
I worked on the project again for about two hours yesterday, and cubase closed normally afterwards now. hmm… weired.
i´ll observe it the next few days and if it happens again i´ll get back to you. thanks for your advice in the meantime!
Sooo… i worked on different projects today and everything worked (almost) fine (except one more forced shutdown of Cubase), and now
suddenly the insert effects get transparent again… on all projects! so it´s not the project, but what could it be?
I´ll attach a screenshot, so you can see it Martin…
Can you please click to the “e” button of the plug-in? Does the plug-in GUI appears? How does it look like? Can you attach the screenshot with the opened plug.in window, please?
I tried to uninstall and reinstall interface driver, midi controller driver, some plugins - still the transparent insert effects. but then without
any obvious reason when i restarted it another time the insert effect colour appeared again. and today… it´s again gone (see screenshot).
when i load the plugins they look normal tough. i don´t know if there are other changes to cubase 10 as i didn´t work for long with these transparent insert effects.
is it possible to move this topic to another category - as it is no longer about cubase 9.5 hanging?
I just found out it might be connected with the waves plugin ´element 2´. i uninstalled it and afterwards cubase 10 didn´t have this
tansparent insert effects anymore - at least for now it doesn´t.
Interesting. The was a similar thread. The user said this happened with some freeware plug-ins. After uninstalling of these gate plug-ins the issue disappeared. Same as yours issue with Waves plug-ins.
If you open the Windows Task Manager, does it say something like “inactive” as the state for Cubase? If yes, it might be the same problem as I have, but you can only be really sure if you install windbg and have a look at the stack trace (which isn’t for the faint hearted).
Or you take a memory dump of Cubase when it hangs- For that you go into the Windows task manager, right click Cubase process and select “Create dump file”. Task Manager will tell you where the dump was written (usually “C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Local\Temp\Cubase9.5.40.DMP”).
Put it someplace where I can download it and send me a link and I can probably tell you which plugin it is…
Do you use any of the plugins I mentioned above? It was a bug in earlier versions of the VSTGUI Framework some plugin developers use.
If you use Tonebooster plugins, get the latest version, they’ve fixed it (Thanks TB!).
Hi there, I’ve the same issue but I’m on a mac with macOS Sierra. I don’t have issues if I work on projects with only audio files. If I start to use Spitfire Audio libraries the issue rises. And like in your case if I attempt to close the project after a few minutes it closes well. If I try to work for more time the project hangs by closing.
For sure we are using different plugins, we are on different OS systems with different libraries. The only stuff we are sharing is Steinberg’s software. The common sense let me suppose hat the issue is not in our projects or computers but by Steinberg. I mean, maybe…
But I really don’t know how to find a way to fix this.
In the end it way actually some plugins (several from different vendors which made it hard to find…) that were the culprit. Some of those bugs were fixed, one other that didn’t get fixed I just didn’t use anymore until I tested it again a few weeks ago with Cubase 10.5 and suddenly no problem anymore, no deadlocks.
Similar thing happened when sonible release their smart:comp, there were actually several users on gearslutz who had the “Cubase hang” problem with it, and the developers had a hard time finding the bug. Very esoteric.
Cubase seems to handle plugin/dll unloading differently than other DAWs. I’ve never heard it happen on MacOS, though.
Hi fese. Did you ever get to the bottom of this? I’m here in Feb 2021 after dealing with what seems the same for over a year. It happens with Acustica Audio plugins in my case. There are a number of reports of it, had numerous tickets opened. Support found the D3D10Warp.dll problem and once more we seem to be at a dead end.
Could the solution be adding this…?
Please /RELEASE me…?
in the end, it was the plugin developers that fixed it. Here is one excerpt from the one that eventually found the problem (at least in the VSTGUI Framework the he used for his plugins.)
It seems something changed in DirectX (D2D). It probably changed in a Windows 10 update (the first versions of Windows 10 were not affected by this).
Hopefully, those who use VSTGUI may have the possibility to fix the problem.
As far as they do not depend on an earlier version of VSTGUI (<4.3), they can update to 4.3.
Those who do not use VSTGUI (or those who would like to know more about this issue) should check a diff between VSTGUI 4.2 (or 4.0) and VSTGUI 4.3.
The following file, especially… and its ~D2DFactory destructor in particular (+ the “useCount” usage in v4.3):
If one uses VSTGUI, it should then be worth starting by debugging this destructor.
Most other Plugins use the framework JUCE, and I have no information about that. Even more confusingly, another JUCE-based plugin that showed the hang problem seemed to have “fixed” itself after a couple of months or so after not using it. I only noticed that because the dev sent me a bugfix to test, and I compared the old and new versions and I could not reproduce the hang anymore.
Thanks so much for that info. I’ll see what the plugin maker makes of that…
Also, in an attempt to group related threads together, I have found this:
It would be nice to know why this happens with multiple plugins only in Cubase. No other DAWs seem to have this problem.
Latest TaskManager DMP: Cubase11_20210210.rar - Google Drive
Interestingly I was allowed to open the File Menu before the freeze which suggests an occasional delay in the commencement of the freeze:
Yep, looks like you have the same problem as I had. I guess that Face Bender is one of your plugins.
Did you open a support ticket with Acustica? At the moment, this would be your best bet, I don’t think Steinberg is gonna solve the problem.
Send them the github.com-Link I posted a few days ago and the following excerpt from your dump and maybe links to all those threads. Worth a try, worked for me with my plugins (Toneboosters, who were really quick to fix it).
# Child-SP RetAddr Call Site` Preformatted text` 00 00000000`0014cdb8 00007ffa`ff1fa34e ntdll!NtWaitForSingleObject+0x14 01 00000000`0014cdc0 00007ffa`ee50cef4 KERNELBASE!WaitForSingleObjectEx+0x8e 02 00000000`0014ce60 00007ffa`ee25a9a9 D3D10Warp!ThreadPool::WaitWhileBusy+0xe4 03 00000000`0014cee0 00007ffa`ee2232c9 D3D10Warp!UMContext::FlushAllRenderingTasks+0x1379 04 00000000`0014d810 00007ffa`ee22071e D3D10Warp!UMDevice::Destroy+0xb9 05 00000000`0014d900 00007ffa`ee22f65b D3D10Warp!UMDevice::`vector deleting destructor'+0x1e 06 00000000`0014d930 00007ffa`fa861abc D3D10Warp!UMDevice::DestroyDevice+0x5b 07 00000000`0014d970 00007ffa`fa87394e d3d11!NDXGI::CDevice::DestroyDriverInstance+0x5c 08 00000000`0014d9c0 00007ffa`fa86c31a d3d11!CContext::LUCBeginLayerDestruction+0x6e 09 00000000`0014da10 00007ffa`fa849590 d3d11!CD3D11LayeredChild<ID3D11DeviceChild,NDXGI::CDevice,64>::LUCBeginLayerDestruction+0x1a 0a 00000000`0014da40 00007ffa`fa86b65b d3d11!CUseCountedObject<NOutermost::CDeviceChild>::`scalar deleting destructor'+0x50 0b 00000000`0014da70 00007ffa`fa865ca9 d3d11!CUseCountedObject<NOutermost::CDeviceChild>::UCDestroy+0x1b 0c 00000000`0014daa0 00007ffa`fa861863 d3d11!CUseCountedObject<NOutermost::CDeviceChild>::UCReleaseUse+0xe9 0d 00000000`0014dad0 00007ffa`fa8735e9 d3d11!CDevice::LLOBeginLayerDestruction+0x143 0e 00000000`0014db00 00007ffa`fa87104a d3d11!NDXGI::CDevice::LLOBeginLayerDestruction+0xd9 0f 00000000`0014db40 00007ffa`fa8626b7 d3d11!NOutermost::CDevice::LLOBeginLayerDestruction+0x1a 10 00000000`0014db70 00007ffa`fa862674 d3d11!TComObject<NOutermost::CDevice>::~TComObject<NOutermost::CDevice>+0x23 11 00000000`0014dba0 00007ffa`fa866899 d3d11!TComObject<NOutermost::CDevice>::`scalar deleting destructor'+0x14 12 00000000`0014dbd0 00007ffa`fa8634f6 d3d11!TComObject<NOutermost::CDevice>::Release+0x39 13 00000000`0014dc00 00007ffa`fafad5cf d3d11!CUseCountedObject<NOutermost::CDeviceChild>::Release+0x156 14 00000000`0014dc30 00007ffa`fafad1a9 d2d1!CHwSurfaceRenderTargetSharedData::~CHwSurfaceRenderTargetSharedData+0x15f 15 00000000`0014dc60 00007ffa`fafb60dd d2d1!InitializableObject<RefCountedObject<CD3DDeviceLevel1,LockingRequired,DeleteOnZeroReference> >::`vector deleting destructor'+0x29 16 00000000`0014dc90 00007ffa`fb0563ba d2d1!RefCountedObject<CD3DDeviceLevel1,LockingRequired,DeleteOnZeroReference>::Release+0x3d 17 00000000`0014dcc0 00007ffa`fb00be1d d2d1!CD3DDeviceManager::D3DDeviceInformation::`scalar deleting destructor'+0x22 18 00000000`0014dcf0 00007ffa`fafbaa08 d2d1!D2DFactory::~D2DFactory+0x51239 19 00000000`0014dd30 00007ffa`fafa896a d2d1!RefCountedObject<D2DFactoryLocking<MultiThreadedTrait>,LockingRequired,DeleteOnZeroReference>::`vector deleting destructor'+0x14 1b 00000000`0014dd90 00007ffa`8719e795 Face_Bender_x64!VSTPluginMain+0x56b15 1c 00000000`0014ddd0 00007ffa`87199cf2 Face_Bender_x64!VSTPluginMain+0x8c7ff 1d 00000000`0014de40 00007ffa`87199e65 Face_Bender_x64!VSTPluginMain+0x87d5c 1e 00000000`0014de70 00007ffb`01847cad Face_Bender_x64!VSTPluginMain+0x87ecf 1f 00000000`0014deb0 00007ffb`01854d4b ntdll!LdrpCallInitRoutine+0x61 20 00000000`0014df20 00007ffb`0185479b ntdll!LdrpProcessDetachNode+0x107 21 00000000`0014dff0 00007ffb`01843bca ntdll!LdrpUnloadNode+0x3f 22 00000000`0014e040 00007ffb`01843b44 ntdll!LdrpDecrementModuleLoadCountEx+0x72 23 00000000`0014e070 00007ffa`ff1ee8be ntdll!LdrUnloadDll+0x94
After some more tests with Cubase and a demo version of reaper, I think I have a hunch why one DAW hangs and one not.
Cubase, when you close a project, unloads all DLLs from the plugins used in the project (my guess is to save memory, as the core of current Cubase was developed 20 years ago when memory was expensive). This is what you see in the thread dump in my post above. Thus, the D2DFactory-Destructor is called (
D2DFactory::~D2DFactory ), and this is where things go wrong, reference counters not being decremented, resources or locks not being released and the program goes into a deadlock (not a C+±expert, just a guess).
Reaper, on the opposite, seems keeps once loaded DLLs happily in memory after closing a project, ready for use in the next project. This makes sense, as Reaper was developed some years after Cubase and computer memory was getting cheaper. Average RAM size in 2000 was perhaps 512MB to 1G in 2000, but probably four times as big five or six years later. Memory saving wasn’t that big an issue anymore.
As I don’t have other DAWs around, I cannot test them, but my guess is that they work similar to Reaper.
Cubase just shows its age here (well, not only here tbh)
That’s the best guess I’ve heard anyone make sir. I’ve been trying to get some basic idea of how VSTGUI and JUCE work. I know AA use JUCE.
I’ve opened numerous tickets with Steinberg and Acustica Audio over the last year so that they’re both clearly tired of me. Steinberg support were very helpful at first but now just ignore me and my woodpeckerish ways. I won’t go into the whole rigmarole, but I’d already sent the github and other links to both companies. AA were kind enough to at least reply with a simple “thankyou for the information” before closing the ticket. Perhaps that’s telling. My word of the moment is /RELEASE. Could the solution be that simple?
What you say above makes total sense to me (I’m no programmer either). I know that what might seem a simple problem in software who’s core programming is old may not have a workaround. But the plugin maker might be able to do something.
Just to note, this is the only project with Facebender in.
Well done on the theory. Let’s hope something is resolved…
I know how you feel regarding to support tickets, I’ve had the same journey, tickets to Steinberg (useless) and the plugin vendors, doing fresh install of windows and so on, until at last I found one dev that had the right hunch.
The big problem with this is that most of the time developers cannot reproduce it. For whatever reason the combination of Windows+Cubase+affected plugins seems to work fine for most people, just for a few not. No idea whether that is related to specific graphic cards or drivers or some other esoteric reason.
I thought I was the only one with that problem back then, not much found on the internet. I posted on the usual forums, few if any replies with a similar problem.
Good luck to you, hope it works out well.
Big thanks for all your help. It seems a decent amount of people have the problem these days so I hope it can be resolved. AA have all the info including your well-educated theory, so I’m hoping it might help to point them in the right direction.