Cues and instrument changes

I’m working on a piece where the trumpet changes from piccolo trumpet to trumpet in C. Before the new instrument starts, there is a bassoon cue. But the new instrument indication (Tpt in C) appears with the “Bn” cue indication, which could confuse the trumpet player.

Is there a way to make the “Tpt in C” indication appear with the actual trumpet part? Of course I can drag that text in Engrave mode, but I’ve noticed this in other parts as well, and it would be nice to have it work automatically.

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I don’t understand exactly what you mean by tthat. Where du you want the instrument change to appear?

Thanks - I had some trouble uploading the image file but now it should be there. I’d like the indication “Tpt in C” to appear right before “straight mute” in bar 55, but instead it appears in bar 53 with the Bassoon cue.

Hm… I guess the cue counts as “content” in the trumpet part, so Dorico paints it there.
Just out of curiosity: If you remove the cue, will the label stay there or will it be printed right at the “real” first notes, where you actually want it?

@Dorico team: Could Dorico ignore cues when determining where to paint instrument change labels? I can imagine parts with multiple cues without real content around.

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The bassoon cue is inserted in the trumpet part, right? Why not insert it in the piccolo part? Or am I missing something?

Yes, that’s probably the easiest solution - I inserted the cue in Page view, so my Picc trumpet had “already” switched to Trumpet in C. Here it is cued into the Picc trumpet part; now, the bassoon says “Bn 8ba.” Is it possible to get rid of the “8ba”? I’ve been mucking around in the properties panel and couldn’t do it.

The property is called “Show octave shift” or something along these lines…

Oh I found it! There is checkbox for “Show octave transposition.” Is there a way to display the cue in concert pitch, since the new trumpet is in C, and the picc. part is in Bb?

I also ran into this issue when making parts recently. It’s not too hard to just put the cue in the other instrument’s staff, but it would be great if Dorico could handle this automatically.

I ran across this problem today too. The problem with inserting the cue in the former instrument is that the “To XXX” label disappears. I think that cues should be disregarded for the position of these labels.

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@andgle’s workaround to place cue for the previous instrument is very useful. But still, it can mess up the cue when switching from an instrument of different transposition. e.g. from Clarinet in A to Bass Clarinet in B flat. Also using the previous instrument’s stave for cue will omit the “to new instrument” text and produce the wrong staff label. I can’t think of any example that the instrument label should appear above a cue instead of the actual entrance, so I simply don’t think there is a need to make the new instrument label above cue and rests. I really hope it gets fixed. @Dorico

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Is there any insight regarding this from the Dorico team? Just wanted to know if this is the way it is designed or if this will be addressed sometime in the future…

Talking about instrument changes, is there a way to prevent the “to new instrument” indication when the change is very close (for example, on the same system). Often, in percussion parts for example, I get “To new instrument” and immediately –next to that text– “New instrument”. It gets too redundant. But I don’t want to disable this option project-wise because I need it on other instances. Furthermore, there’s no way to hide the “To new instrument” indication, only the prefix; so I have to change the instrument name to a custom text of a space. This way, I achieve the hiding I need. But now, it gets really complicated to reselect this indication because there is no visible item and there is no signpost.

There are no changes planned imminently in this area, though we do plan to return to it in future. As discussed earlier in the thread, putting the cue in the original instrument (in galley view) rather than in the new instrument will make the instrument change occur after the cue has finished.

You should be able to hide instrument change labels altogether in Engrave mode, I think.

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Thank you Daniel for the information. Yes, as @mdbyyc mentioned, the workaround works, but it prevents the “to new instrument” caution (very much needed sometimes). In the meanwhile, I think we’ll need to add those manually with staff text.
And no, instrument change labels can’t be hidden in Engrave mode; only the prefix.
Anyways, thank you very much for taking the time to answer. Very much appreciated.

You can hide the instrument change caution by putting a space in the Custom Text field of Properties in Engrave mode (as well as flipping the Hide Prefix switch).

Any Clef (and I imagine the key) change remains at the point of change.

The general option to remove or change the instrument change prefix only (as opposed to the instrument name) is a Layout Option.

Caution: Once you hide it, good luck changing it back. :scream:
(Actually, choosing the Instr. Chg. clef will allow one to re-show the prefix and revoke the custom text.)

Thank you Derrek; that’s exactly what I was pointing out with my fist post. Not an ideal solution, but at least there’s a way to do it.

PS- I f you remember approximately where the label was before “hiding” it, you can also reselect it by dragging a selection box through that zone. It’s a pain, but it’s possible.