Custom master pages - some basic questions

Oh, Dorico is very logical. Shift + something is a popover. In popovers you often can write rather intuitive things, such as both D- or Dm in a Chords-Popover, or d for a d minor key signature and D for a d major key signature. All the menus follow a similar logic in how they are built, the whole concept of players, layouts and flows is super consistent and present throughout the program, alt-arrows moves things around, etc etc etc

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For some things, it is very logical, as you say – things like popovers and arrow keys, for example, are very intuitive, flexible, and easy to grasp and use.

But - for me, at least - the logic is frequently only revealed once one has (eventually) understood how things work in Dorico. Take, for example, the fact of master pages, and how one must deal with them: they make perfect logic – once one has thoroughly internalized the concepts and structures they represent; until then (for me), they are alien elements, that have to be encountered, ingested, and eventually digested.

That’s why I really appreciate your help, and this forum – without it, the road to understanding would be much more difficult.

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@Derrek , @klafkid , @Lillie_Harris
Thank-you to everyone for helping me learn how to save a custom master page.

I’ve been so focussed on this alone, I hadn’t stopped to consider the fact that we have both Full Score and Part master page sets – which leads to other questions:

Let’s say that I want to make a custom master page that will be common to both the Default Full Score and Default Part master page sets. What comes to mind is Derrek’s example (above):

To create the “Custom First” custom master page, I would first select the master page set within which I want that custom master page to appear – let’s say it’s the Default Full Score master page set.

I would then hit the “+” button, define the new custom master page (name, ‘based on’, type, etc, etc), then make the desired page number changes, and finally hit “apply” and “close”.

Then, to have this master page available for future projects, I would highlight the master page set in which it was created (Default Full Score master page set), and hit ‘export’.

But what if I want the same “Custom First” page to also be available in the Default Part master page set?

  • Since the default designs to Full Score and Part “First” master pages are slightly different, I would think that one would have to create a distinct “Custom First” custom master page for each of those two master page sets, and then export each of these separately – one as part of the Default Full Score master page set, and the other as part of the Default Part master page set. (And name them so that Full Score and Part sets are easily identified.) Is this correct?

  • If, on the other hand, the designs of the “Custom First” page were identical in both Full Score and Part master page sets, how would one apply that “Custom First” page to both sets, and – if possible – export them in a way that would allow one to later import them so that they would automatically apply to both sets?

Thanks again for your help!

Once one has the basic layout imported, one can make changes to adapt it to its “container” (score to part/part to score).

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Thanks, Derrek.
Your image seems to indicate that you had also created a “Dedication Part”, along with your “Dedication Full Score”. Are you suggesting that you more or less manually created it, with necessary adaptations, as a Part set? Or was there a way that the software itself did it?

I created the various add-on sets. Dorico did not do it automatically.
This example is from a “test” file that I usually call up to craft demonstrations for the forum, and to test out ideas for myself. The various Template Sets are among the earliest I tried out when I was learning. [Note the Default Part (imported) misstep when I failed to rename my first adapted set :grimacing:–sound familiar?]

Later I created a special project which I use to create, store, and update my various page Template Sets. I have combined the most useful Templates into a substitute Default Score and Part pair that, thanks to a hack uncovered by @FredGUnn, I have used to replace the Dorico default sets.

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Thanks, Derrek - this is helpful!

Sure does! :laughing:

Did that hack involve making changes to the Users\AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\Dorico \userlibrary.xml file?
(Is there anything online on it?)

Thanks again!

I posted a walkthough of how I did it in this thread. Keep in mind Dorico (as of D5.1) only looks for the pageset.fullscore and pageset.part sets, so you can’t simply add additional sets. If you name your exported sets those, you’ve basically overwritten the factory sets with your own sets, so the factory page templates will not appear, unless of course you’ve exported them with your own sets that you renamed. (It’s easy to revert to factory by removing your doricolib files though.) You can only have one default set of templates for score layouts and one for parts, but it’s fairly easy to edit and customize these with a doricolib file.

I’m spending the next couple of days doing part layout for a ballet, and it sure is great to have all my default V.S. and Page Turn page templates ready to go with just a click!

Thank-you, Fred!

First, any idea if one can do this in Dorico 3.5?

Also:

I’ve looked up my custom Full Score master page sets – e.g., <test 2.doricolib> – but have no idea how to open it for editing. Am I looking at the wrong files?

@Derrek
Related question:

Using Derrek’s suggestion of making each system its own flow, I have created a custom master page, based on my Default Full Score “First” master page. I’ve called this custom master page “multi-flow, with short systems”:

I would now like to copy this custom master page to its set’s Full Score “Default” master page. Is there any ‘automatic’ way of doing this, or must I recreate the original manually?

Thanks, in advance, for your help!

You don’t need a special master page for that - unless I misunderstood you request. It’s enough to allow flows on the same page with the default page template. You‘ll find this option in layout options > flows

Thanks, klafkid!

I think the problem may be of my own making: while I had earlier saved a version of this custom master page within its own set, I didn’t, in fact, import it into my current project – instead, I recreated the custom master page within the Dorico Full Score default master pages! (I just noticed this now!)

Are you saying that my “multi-flow, with short systems” custom master page will automatically be applied to both the First and Default master pages, if I import it as part of its own set?

[later] . . . oh – I see what you’re suggesting (no need for custom master page for these multi-flows). Sorry!

No. Page templates are distinct from each other – you can’t apply characteristics/frames of one page template to another existing page template. You can only re-use page template frames by way of creating a new page template “based on” an existing page template.

You also cannot change what page template sets new projects start with automatically, except by way of project templates.

However, in this instance, Sascha is correct, and you can achieve this exact end result by

  1. Allowing flows on the same page (in Layout Options)
  2. Showing flow headings (in Layout Options)
  3. Editing the Default flow heading template if needed (eg to remove the flow number token)
  4. Editing the flow heading paragraph style, to make it left-aligned rather than center-aligned
  5. Allowing final systems to be unjustified horizontally (in Layout Options; this is not an attribute of the page template)

This approach means the same styling of flows with their flow headings can appear on any page, using a variety of page templates; it’s not hard-wired into a single page template.


If you don’t mind me saying so, I get the feeling you fixate on functional details and end up overcomplicating things for yourself. You might find that your road is smoother if you ask “how might I achieve this?” and follow the advice that you are given.

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Thanks, Lillie;

In fact, those are the Layout Option settings I made in order to create this particular custom master page. The point of this custom page is to be able to load its set whenever I need that formatting, without having to re-do all the Layout Option settings each time.

I don’t mind – I am very detail-oriented! :wink:. Part of the reason why I don’t simply ask how to achieve something is because I don’t want to overly bother forum users; another part of the reason is that I want to know more than to do something – I want to understand what’s behind the doing. However, I will take you up on your current advice, and – instead of trying to figure it out myself – will simply ask if you might kindly walk me through the steps involved to achieve the following:

Thanks again. . .

Create a project template…?

Unfortunately, I’m stuck using Dorico 3.5 (Windows 7 machine), but I was told that the old “custom master pages” is equivalent to the current “project templates”, and so I had solved that problem by creating my “multi-flow, shorter systems” custom master page, which contains all those Layout Option settings.

My problem is that I “based” my “multi-flow, shorter systems” on Dorico’s Full Score “First” master page, and I want it to also apply to Dorico’s “Default” master page. If you can walk me through the steps to do that, I’d really appreciate it.

Thanks.

I think not. The new Page Templates are the same as the old Master Pages.

You create a Project Template by saving your project as one (File>Save as Project Template)

Thanks, Janus, but the only file type that is offered under File>Save as in my Dorico 3.5 is .dorico.

It is a separate menu item (With a default shortcut Alt+F), not a filetype.

Saving projects as templates did appear wth Dorico 4. Before that, you had to delete all flows and save as… and use that file to start your project.