# Cutaway issue **URL:** \ **Category:** Dorico\ **Created:** [October 2, 2026, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698 "2026-10-02T13:47:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/1 "2026-10-02T13:47:22Z")
I created a cutaway in the lower staff of my piano part, and now there is a space and a cut in the score: the bass and drum part are seperated bij a too large space and the “connection” as in some barlines is gone. (sorry, I’m not english, don’t know how to properly describe it it now looks like it’s a different system) I just want the lower staff not there, but not replaces by space. ---
**Author:** ![asherber](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/asherber/32/277014_2.png) [@asherber](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/asherber)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/2 "2026-10-02T13:49:17Z")
Can you provide a screenshot? ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/3 "2026-10-02T13:52:06Z")
Yes! ![Scherm­afbeelding 2026-10-02 om 15.51.37](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/f/1/0/f103b8d6d88d12b8341d93321134bfe4d2c8ce38.png) the pink lines are not visible in the printed version, but the gap is there! ---
**Author:** ![asherber](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/asherber/32/277014_2.png) [@asherber](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/asherber)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/4 "2026-10-02T13:57:58Z")
Ah, right. Yes, that’s how cutaways work – they remove the staff but leave the space, as in the image in the manual. > **[Cutaways - Dorico Pro - 6.2](https://www.steinberg.help/r/dorico-pro/6.2/en/dorico/topics/page_formatting/page_formatting_cutaways_c.html)** > > Cutaway scores are a notation convention that emerged in the 20th century and are typically used in contemporary art music. In a cutaway score, staves do not appear in empty bars, leaving blank spaces on the page. I think what you want instead is to **hide** the staff rather than cut it away. > **[Hiding/Showing staves from system/frame breaks - Dorico Pro - 6.2](https://www.steinberg.help/r/dorico-pro/6.2/en/dorico/topics/page_formatting/page_formatting_staves_hiding_showing_manually_t.html)** > > You can manually change staff visibility from the rhythmic positions of system/frame breaks onwards by hiding, showing, and resetting individual staves. For example, if you have hidden empty staves in the layout but want specific empty staves to... Note that when you want the staff to reappear, you’ll need to add another system break and set the staff visibility to Reset. ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/5 "2026-10-02T14:07:15Z")
I did exactly what the manual says regarding manual staff visibility, and now this happens: ![Scherm­afbeelding 2026-10-02 om 16.06.19](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/c/b/5/cb558bc87d30d8ab495b98fa7463d0696cf44759.png) ---
**Author:** ![asherber](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/asherber/32/277014_2.png) [@asherber](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/asherber)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/6 "2026-10-02T14:16:34Z")
Check the frame break at the top and make sure that the Wait For Next Frame Break property is not enabled. ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/7 "2026-10-02T19:05:28Z")
Found it! You have to do that in Engrave mode. But I still do not understand how this property got activated? ---
**Author:** ![MarcLarcher](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/marclarcher/32/1623_2.png) [@MarcLarcher](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/MarcLarcher)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/8 "2026-10-02T20:51:13Z")
Maybe you’ve used Make into page at some point in your work… Or another feature that uses this property under the hood. That is why I prefer using the property directly, so I know what I have done and which consequences can happen 🙏 ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/9 "2026-10-02T20:56:13Z")
Hmm, not sure. No “make into page” here but I imported this score. And I think at some level there’s a battle going on between Avid and Steinberg because I also had to type every single chord again, because it is imported as text (and therefor useless) and not as chords. Maybe this is also some hidden “we will let you do this SibDorConv but we will haunt you for some years … You will regret leaving Sibeliusss whuahahaha…” sorry! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MarcLarcher](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/marclarcher/32/1623_2.png) [@MarcLarcher](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/MarcLarcher)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/10 "2026-10-02T21:09:22Z")
What settings do you have in Preferences\>xml import? If you have checked something like “keep the original layout”, then it’s the import that adds brraks (and properties to them). Best results are often said to be obtained with _every_ option unchecked 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/11 "2026-10-02T21:12:15Z")
Oeh! Great advise, I’ll look into it next time! I always hope there’ll be no next time but I have an awful lot of Sibelius projects from the dark unhappy times… ---
**Author:** ![MarcLarcher](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/marclarcher/32/1623_2.png) [@MarcLarcher](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/MarcLarcher)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/12 "2026-10-02T21:34:51Z")
I’ve just read through ypur other thread… And I come back to what I have written earlier: using some features (based on what we think they do but not knowing what they really do under the hood) is like a trap. That is why I do not recommend all the features like Make into… (Page/System), or the casting off features. Instead, I recommend getting acquainted with layout options\>note spacing, Engrave mode\>Engrave menu\>insert Note Spacing Change, and using breaks, adding manually the properties “wait for next… break”. This way, you will take advantage of the great skills Dorico has when it comes to spacing music beautifully, and you can still have the last say on how it will look, with a minimal effort. Dorico is not Sibelius (that’s why I have changed almost ten years ago after all!) its workflow is entirely different. If yours is not, then you’re missing something 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/13 "2026-10-02T22:46:57Z")
Yeah, I’d like to learn. But can I make Dorico put 4 bars at a system without using the casting off-feature? Professional notation in my world has that kind of rules. Allmost everytime something has to move to the next system, not because of the spacing, but because of the form. I write for sight readers. It mustn’t be beautiful, but it has to be absolutely clear and unambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/14 "2026-10-02T22:50:08Z")
But yeah: I’d like very much to customise my Dorico the way you suggest so I have to do less manual adjustments! And I’m delighted to hear that I’m not using Dorico at full performance mode, there’s a lot that can be improved. I’m really thrilled to hear that! ---
**Author:** ![TonH](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/tonh/32/400395_2.png) [@TonH](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/TonH)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2026, 10:53pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/15 "2026-10-02T22:53:25Z")
> [@RoelVanWijk](#): > > But can I make Dorico put 4 bars at a system without using the casting off-feature Maybe just set casting off to 4 bars per system, and don’t consolidate multibar rests which would prevent that in certain situations? ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/16 "2026-10-03T09:46:02Z")
I’m just brainstorming here, but I suspect propagate to be the antagonist in this case. Propagating puts the entire score full of breaks, and it might be nice to have a soft propagate function that doesn’t do that. Propagating for me is: all the work I did to make trumpet 2 nice, should be transferred to trumpet 3 if possible. Is there a function of this kind? ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/17 "2026-10-03T09:54:57Z")
And in regard of “casting off”: Dorico thinks differently about what “4 bars in a system” actually means. I think of a multirest in a bar as one bar, because it optically is. Dorico thinks different. Luckily it doesn’t break apart multirests that are bigger than 4 bars, but it has some kind of (to me unclear) algorithm in hanling this. E.g. this trumpet part: ![Scherm­afbeelding 2026-10-03 om 11.48.11](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/f/0/6/f0671f6ea80795fff9596a12511dccdc5a62c6a6.png) Now there are 2 bars, 3 bars and one bar per system. I’d like to have it this way right away: ![Scherm­afbeelding 2026-10-03 om 11.49.14](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/6/f/c/6fcd34e8e1afab79e6bab0de2688622e84b0cf4a.png) 4 bars, 4 bars (as I suggested by ordering 4 bars per system) and then 2 multirests for the sake of clearness of form. This I’d have to do manually then, as it is subject to form, tempo, style of music, stage light and venue stress, 😉 Further more, my version makes the score fit on 3 pages instead of 4, the 4th page being a oneliner. ---
**Author:** ![TonH](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/tonh/32/400395_2.png) [@TonH](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/TonH)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/18 "2026-10-03T10:02:28Z")
> [@RoelVanWijk](#): > > all the work I did to make trumpet 2 nice I keep coming back to this. It shouldn’t be necessary to have all that (manual) work when you’ve found the Layout, Notation and Engraving options which suits you best. Then you wouldn’t have to copy all that manual work to other parts, containing different music, too. If you could provide a sample project, including that nice trumpet 2 part, I’m sure some of the more experienced users here can give you tips how to reach that goal without all this overrides and adjustments. ---
**Author:** ![RoelVanWijk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@RoelVanWijk](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/RoelVanWijk)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/19 "2026-10-03T10:12:10Z")
I keep coming back to this too. Please agree to disagree then. I have rules that are simply not possible to “rule” I’m sorry, my English is not good enough to make myself clear. It depends on stage light, venue stress, style of music. I was not joking. I make this decisions myself and my customers like me because of it. Many times it invokes having 4 bars at a system, but then “making room” by putting a longer rest-form (e.g. 4 multirests of 16 bars on one system) makes a part fit on 3 pages instead of 12. And this reduces the very stressful page flipping. My musicians love me when I provide them with the least stressfull lay-out. I can provide you with a sample project here, and for this particular case people here might have a fit solution, but for the next project the rules might be totally different. I have read and played a lot of professional jazz orchestra scores, and they follow this unwritten rules. Manual adjustments are the only way to go. Maybe 80% is possible in “golden rules”, but there will always be some manual adjustment, and for a theatre score this has to be done for 20+ parts. I’d rather propagate that, and not do 20 scores manually. It can be the difference between stress and joy (excuse my feeble english, you know what I mean, I’m exaggerating I think) ---
**Author:** ![TonH](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/tonh/32/400395_2.png) [@TonH](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/TonH)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698/20 "2026-10-03T10:15:15Z")
> [@RoelVanWijk](#): > > I think of a multirest in a bar as one bar, because it optically is. Dorico thinks different. Dorico just counts bars, 4 empty bars are still 4 bars ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/4X/7/2/b/72b02c2581073cc1d5a54d39b83ed041c7e927af.png) So in your example here are 4 bars (44-47), 4 bars (48-51), 5 bars (52-56) and 16 bars (57-72) > [@RoelVanWijk](#): > > but it has some kind of (to me unclear) algorithm in hanling this I feel that algorithm is: -show four bars when possible -don’t break multi-ar rests, so accept sometimes more bars per system [Next page](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cutaway-issue/1042698.md?page=2)