Hello again. I’m trying to create a piano template and while I’m progressing quickly with note input and the like, I still haven’t grasped Dorico’s method of fitting the music onto the pages the way I would like. I have attached a photo of a piano template I’m creating, but even though there’s space at the bottom of page one, Dorico pushes the last system onto to page 2. I haven’t figured this out after trying to lower the bottom margins. Maybe I’m not addressing the problem correctly, I don’t know. Do you have any advice? Thanks again!
Hi @Dale_Senaga,
FYI you can edit posts if you would like to attach items, rather than creating a new thread. (@dspreadbury are you able to move the photo from the other thread into this one?)
There are so many possibilities. For one; casting off settings. Could you upload this project?
First off, I wouldn’t recommend trying to do too much layout work before you’ve put the notes in. Dorico will change the spacing of the systems based on their contents, both horizontally and vertically.
That having been said, we really need to see the document – what are the Layout Options set to; are there any Breaks, etc, etc.
Ben, thank you so much for responding so quickly! I will take your advice to heart and complete my piano arrangement first before trying to do the page layout portion. What you suggested makes more sense.
The best advice. Layout must be made at the end of the engraving process ; in Dorico it is very important, but some people, eager to get on with the layout (out of habit from other software), end up working in a haphazard manner.
I fell into that trap myself at first; now, I’ve learnt to be patient and to plan my tasks.
Ben, thank you very much for the wise advice! I appreciate it very much!
dale senaga
Hello again. This is a continuation of a previous post I made yesterday which addresses the problem I have of fitting all my music onto the first page. As you can see, there’s enough room on the bottom of page one for the last stave to fit, but Dorico pushes the last stave onto page two. When trying to shorten the distance between staves, I had to adjust each stave one by one. I haven’t found an easier way to squeeze all the staves closer together in one step instead of having to adjust each stave one by one. I’m not sure if I’m doing this right, but I attached my Dorico songfile below. Thank you.
Dorico - Lead Sheet Best.dorico (1.6 MB)
Here is your original layout:
Here is that layout with the staff spacing reset:
Here is that layout with the Inter-system Gap set to 9 rather than 10:
Dorico won’t automatically move systems back to the previous page just because you have manually made room for them. For this, you need to use the Make Into Frame function.
Daniel, I’m amazed at how fast you analyzed my problem. For a guy coming from FINALE, this problem
plagued me from the start, since FINALE’s solution to this problem is quite different. Thank you for saving me loads of time and anguish trying to solve this problem on my own. Hope I can write all this advice down correctly and move on to other Dorico
issues. Thank you again!
Dale Senaga
Daniel, I noticed that when you applied the “staff spacing reset” to my song, it changed the spacing between the staves from my haphazard “around 19.4mm” to precisely “27.2mm” I was wondering how did you do this? Then on your final fix, the spacing between staves was 20.5mm, with the last 2 staves spacing being larger to accomodate the 1st and 2nd endings. I’m not sure what the “staff spacing reset” is. Thanks again.
In Finale you would just move staves around on the page manually. In Dorico, manual adjustments to staves are the last resort, for fine tuning. Start with the “global” settings in Layout Options, and then make as few changes as you need to for exceptions and outliers.
Always try to do less. Let Dorico do the work, and then make a few adjustments where needed. If you find yourself trying to move everything around the page, you’re basically fighting what the software is doing for you.
I produce loads of scores with no manual layout work whatsoever. I literally just type the notes in, and it’s done.
Indeed it is.
There is a fundamental concept in Dorico which differs from Finale:
The page layout tries always to avoid collisions between all music items.
You set up a basic page layout: The page and rastral size, the page and frame margins, the default note spacing width and the minimum gap between systems. Those settings are available in Layout-Options and can be specified for each layout individually.
Dorico does the rest.
If there is – for example – a dynamic sign attached to a note with 3 ledger lines below the staff the gap to the next system will be enlarged if the gap falls below the defined minimum gap.
In Engrave Mode at the bottom of each page there is a percentage which represents the fullness of the systems on the page. Dorico tries to keep the value less than 100 %. If it’s too high depending on the spacing algorithm a system will be moved to the next page.
Bottom line: In the vast majority of the cases modifying the global settings in Layout Options results a more consistent layout than dragging around the systems what you had to do in Finale. Even the JW plugins didn’t provide a better appearance than the “Dorico Way”. Manual adjusting is only for fine tuning.
Dorico - I Love Paris.dorico (1.7 MB)
Hello again. I’m having a very hard time trhing to understand Dorico’s Page formatting
system and have attached my ongoing song once again. I changed the Inter-Systen Gap to 6 1/2 and the last measure jumped onto page one from page two. The problem is that this last measure didn’t join the last 2 measures on page one, and Dorico created another system just for this one measure. I’m very slow in understanding Dorico’s way of moving the measures around. and I need your patience in helping me navigate through this learning period.
Dorico - I Love Paris.dorico (1.8 MB)
Stop trying to fight Dorico. Just let it lay things out for you.
I deleted all your manual system breaks. I asked Dorico to use the First page template on page one (Layout options>Page setup>Flows…) and hide the flow headings.
And everything fits on one page.
(I’m not sure why the rehearsal marks collide - perhaps others can help)
Dorico - I Love Paris-edit.dorico (1.6 MB)
The rehearsal marks had been manually moved. Select each one and do Edit > Reset Position, and they’ll pop back up to where they should be.