Daniel - Dorico 1.2 (Fingering Issue) and other Issues

Hi Daniel,

As a test of Dorico and that of the fingering added in version 1.2 I’ve tried to input the first few bars of Chopin’s Ballade No.1 in G minor.

I’ll do my best to explain the issues…

This is a (original?) copy…

https://ibb.co/b5Ak0G

This is within Dorico without editing…

https://ibb.co/dLCb7w

The issues I’m having is that the fingering position on the last note of a beamed group (because it’s, I assume, related to the note head) are placed completely away from the previous fingering positions.

Issue 1. The B’s on the left hand with fingering notation of 2 in Bar 1 and Bar 2 are misaligned.

Issue 2. The slur from Bar 1-3 cuts through the fingering notation (5) on the F# of Bar 2.

Issue 3. The position of the aforementioned C (fingering 5) is curiously placed.

Obviously, I could edit these to look like this…

https://ibb.co/mL8uub

Issue 1. Y offset to -3
Issue 2. Y offset to -1
Issue 3. Y offset to -5/8

Slur manually adjusted.

The voicing is as follows…

https://ibb.co/gm2b7w

I used cross-staffed to avoid notation of the rest in Bar 1 (I’ve noticed I could have done the same for Bar 3).

QUESTIONS:

  1. Is there an issue with the fingering position for the last note of a beamed group?
  2. Is the fingering (5) for the first note © in Bar 2 of the right hand meant to be positioned like that?
  3. Do slurs recognise and avoid fingering notation?

OBSERVATION:

I appears the fingering positioning algorithm is relative to the note head, thus, in the example above, the first 3 notes can’t be moved closer because of the beam, however, as the stem of the last note in Bar 1 - and the last note in the first group of notes in Bar 2 - are to the left, it appears the fingering notation is relative to the note head, as well as a fixed distance from the staff.

Conversely, this would seem to explain why the fingering of the first note C on the right hand (5) is positioned where it is… stem on the right, though determined by the distance of the staff.

SUGGESTIONS:

  1. The fingering notation of the last note of a beam group of notes should be relative to the beam.
  2. An option to align the X position of the fingering notation to the stem OR the note head.

Note: Whilst this may not be correct, it would give flexibility to faithfully reproduce the original image.

  1. IF Dorico COULD recognises the fingering as an attribute of the note COULD there be an option to align the fingering on beamed notes relative to the beam. This would mean that moving the beam would move the fingering in relation to the beaming.

Issue: At the moment, when the beam is adjusted in ENGRAVE mode ALL fingering positions remain static, which in turn means manually moving every fingering notation on every affected note.

It is very possible I don’t understand Dorico well enough and as such NONE of the above is a criticism.

Kind regards

Darren

P.S How do I slur the left hand? It won’t align what-so-ever :frowning:

Darren, what comes out if you don’t use so many voices? Only voice one for the right AND left hand an then let cross the notes the lines?

I just did it as test. Small fingering, stem direction, slur direction and slur position adjustments. Only one voice per system.
But your question of fingering positioning remains…
piano_test.zip (314 KB)

EDIT -

Hi Peadey

Yes, it appears the last note is disconnected from the beamed notes. Switching between beam direction UP, FLAT and DOWN moves everything except the last note.

I assume you altered the position of this fingering because Dorico didn’t place it where you wanted?

I’ll assume Dorico respects the override positioning, fixes the note where it was set and therefore won’t adjust with the beam.

Any further information would be appreciated Daniel.

Kind regards, Darren

Hi Peadey,

Your version looks good, I’ll try using one voice. May I ask, the last note of the first beamed group of semi-quavers on the right hand… did it place the (2) as show in my very quick mock up? I’m curious as to whether you had the same issue.

Kind regards, Darren

I didn’t adjust anything in the last bar. After crossing the staves Dorico made all by itself. I didn’t adjust the beam direction, only stems! The fingering positions without moving them afterwards was initially exactly like in your example. Same issue.

I believe there is confusion, I didn’t imply you adjusted anything in the last bar :confused:

All fine, I misunderstood " the last note"…

I don’t think there’s anything too untoward going on here. If you change the engraving option shown in this screenshot (on the Fingering page of Engraving Options) from 1/8 space to 1/4 space:

then you’ll get this result:



Thank you all for this thread. I tried to reproduce that little example and learned quite a lot from you all.

Daniel, this is good to know, thanks.

By the way, did you change the stem direction anywhere or is it only a matter of the right engraving options to get automaticly flipped stems in case of stave crossing? For me the stems changed partially their direction, some didn’t.

I happened to input it using an up-stem voice on the LH staff, which was silly and I did have to force the stems down, but if you use a down-stem voice on the LH staff to start with then everything should work without the need for any stem forcing.