Diff between Midi Volume 7, Midi Track Volume

Hey guys,

I generally use cc7 for overall volume of a track, I record it in at the start of the piece and then use expression to change volume levels within that cc7 (if the sample responds to expression). Sometimes the music will dictate that I adjust cc7 and I do that by recording in a fader movement from my controller keyboard. This shows up in a controller lane below the midi labeled “volume”

What is the Midi Volume in the inspector and also the Midi Track Volume on the mixer track? How are they related to the cc7? The fader on the mixer for the midi tracks don’t seem to follow cc7 so are they representing some other volume variable?


The MIDI channel fader:

  1. Sends cc7 data to the track’s output
  2. cc7 data from the fader will not record onto the MIDI track
  3. It will not respond to cc7 data from the track input (no remote controller set up)
  4. It will respond to cc7 data on the track if volume automation is set to read

I’m sorry, I still don’t quite get it. If I have cc7 set to 80 in the midi track and I have the Midi channel fader set to 50 what, if anything would happen to the perceived volume of the track?

Depends on the time when the control change is sent.

For example:
You program two cc7 changes into your MIDI track. One at 0:00:00 for 80 the other at 0:05:00 for 60.
Before pushing play, you set the MIDI fader to 50.
This sets the volume to 50 as a control change is sent when you move the fader.
Upon pushing play (at 0:00:00) the volume sets itself to 80 (due to the change in value for cc7 on the MIDI track triggering a control change message to be sent).
You pull the MIDI fader down (during play) to 50. This sends another control change message telling the instrument that cc7 is now 50.
That setting of 50 will persist until 0:05:00, when the volume will be set to 60.

In other words:
You can set the MIDI fader to whatever you want, but if a change in the value for cc7 exists in the MIDI track then that control change will override the fader’s position.

However, cc7 changes on the MIDI track will not change the fader position unless automation read is on for volume.

I think I understand the way they interact at this point, now comes the question of real world application and usefulness. What is the value of having a fader that is independent of the acutal cc on the track? What would be a practical application of the fader in conjunction with the cc on the actual midi channel?

It just seems like there’s too many ways to control the same value that can potentially conflict with one another quite easily.

Also, how does “volume” on the inspector play into any of this?


It’s a lot easier and quicker to move a fader with automation write enabled during playback or recording.
Also possibly more accurate for a curve than drawing.

So if I’m understanding correctly its really designed to be used instead of the cc7 controller lane in the midi channel. Its not really designed to be used in conjunction with it. Fair enough. I don’t generally draw my volumes in anyway and use a dedicated midi fader.

Thanks for the help.


Best practice:

Turn the MIDI fader to OFF and be sparing about which MIDI functions you use such as pan.

Use CC7 to send arbitrary control changes along with typical notation and other expressive mechanisms to external or software-based instruments, with the latter having a fader in software for audio if absolutely necessary.

The beauty of VST is that on the “front end” or input side, you can control a musical performance via standard MIDI commands, but on the “back end” you can automate the audio output using the DAW as and when desired.

And set your drums (or bass drum) to about -6db and mix the other instruments (or kit) around that as a starting point so you have some headroom for adding FX, EQ etc. and also allows for dynamics on input following the previous good advice.

It is true that CC#7 applied to a MIDI track’s volume fader, and CC#7 inside a MIDI Part on that track can cause a conflict.
There are options for how to resolve that in MIDI menu>CC Automation Setup.
Other ways of avoiding conflicts…
a) like mutesolo said, set the MIDI Fader “off” (you can enter a numerical value of “-1”), and just use the CC#7 values inside the MIDI Part
b) From that same MIDI menu>CC Automation Setup dialog, set CC#7’s Record Destination as “Automation Track” rather than “MIDI Part”.