I have been using Cubase since version 7. With my band, I currently use Cubase in conjunction with the Arranger Track for backing tracks. Since we now want to integrate lighting into the show, I looked around for a complete solution and purchased VSTLive. And what can I say, I am a little shocked at how unusable the DMX Editor in VST Live currently is.
To be clear: I haven’t tested the other features of VST Live yet and assume that these features are usable. I also think that VST Live has a lot of potential and will be useful for me at some point in the future. However, I don’t think it’s right to advertise DMX functionality at this stage.
I am using an Enttec DMX USB PRO and I am able to send signals to the device through VST Live. However, I always have to start VST Live twice to do this, as the device is not recognized on the first start. This fact alone makes the software unusable for me for live use.
The draw tool does not work in the DMX editor, even though I have installed a pre-release version that should have fixed the problem, which means that you have to set each point individually with a click instead of being able to draw a curve. The line tool also does not work and, regardless of whether I use it across a single channel or multiple channels, it only sets points with a value of 128. This means I cannot create ramps or curves. If this has anything to do with the Q symbol above “Quantize” and this Q is actually a clickable button, then I can’t click on it. The Q remains gray no matter what I do. And why is there no option to automatically interpolate ramps between two points? Without these functions, I don’t see how you can program even a minimally complex light show with it.
Other convenience features that I would have expected are:
Color changes in the DMX mixer should be saved in the project (currently, these changes are lost when the software is restarted)
It should be possible to assign names to DMX channels
DMX channels should be able to be hidden/shown for each DMX track in the project so that the editor for that DMX track only contains the channels that are needed
Software that has been specifically developed for use in live scenarios should inspire confidence in the user. As someone who purchased VST Live specifically to enhance their own live show with DMX, I am disappointed to report that it does not do so at all.
I would therefore like to know what the current plans are for the further development of the DMX functionality. At the moment, it feels like I have completely wasted the 150€ I spent on the purchase.
I have been battling with this software for years now, since version 1. There were some crucial bugs that I reported, and only a few of them were fixed. The rest remain with an unknown status. I had a huge amount of patience simply because I like Steinberg products and wanted to stay in the ecosystem. I was also hopeful after I learned that the founder of Steinberg is in charge of this software.
However, today I decided to move on to Ableton Live and delete VST Live once and for all. The decision was instant after trying to implement basic tempo and time signature changes in a project, and it was an absolute mess. The click kept going out of sync and did not update to the correct values when jumping from one part to another. At that point I thought, imagine this happening during a live show, that would be catastrophic. I have never felt confident enough to trust this software in a real live situation. Like what is the point of a live performance software if it is not rock solid?
I have also tried countless times to perform simple timeline edits such as automation, tempo ramps, and time signature changes. It is literally impossible to do these directly from the timeline, which is beyond odd. There is no way to create ramps between two points, exactly as you mentioned. I genuinely cannot wrap my head around how such basic functionality can be this crippled.
Although the concept is promising, the software is far from usable right now, and it seems to never run out of bugs and issues. With almost every maintenance update, new bugs are introduced. That is genuinely unfortunate, especially considering that Steinberg products are, in my opinion, among the best on the market. I respect both @musicullum and @Spork for the effort they are putting into this. But this is far below expectations and not something I would ever expect from Steinberg.
I will continue to enjoy Cubase, but VST Live is in a completely different realm. It feels like a severely underdeveloped prototype developed by a completely different company rather than a finished Steinberg product, and it is something I would never use or trust in a live show.
My live setup now is Ableton Live with AbleSet, and it’s mind blowing. It’s stable and just works.
you need to select the LANE button, line tool only works in bottom lane.
Then you need to deselect the snap to grid
then the grid value will be used to snap beginning and end of line but having snap deselected would freely place points of the line instead of distributing on grid.
For simper dmx shows i had succes in manual progrmmain 20-30 channels directly in VST Live, building up a dozen dmx clips by hand (like cuoes), and then copy paste it in different songs and positions, they adapt to tempo like midi tracks.
For more complex setup, i recently discovered a software, DMXDesktop (search it) that can manage auto shows, complex cues , light groups etc etc and is midi controllable. I’n now proceeding to build much more complex shows sending midi commands to DMXdesktop via midi tracks.
Then i can decide later if i want to run gigs with both software opened, or i can also send artnet to artnet in in VSTLive and record complete DMX track from DMXDesktop back to vstlive, so i would only need vstlive open while gigging instead of the 2 programs.
This topic has been discussed many times before.
While it's certainly possible to implement a light show indirectly,
this involves additional costs for DMX interfaces that
unlock lighting software. The fact is, the current DMX interface
isn't suitable for complex shows, unless you're content with
simple color changes.
DMXDesktop works with generic usb to dmx cables, with artnet, with sACN so no extra interface to unlock it.
You are right for the other observations.
EDIT: and dmxdesktop offers not only lifetime license but also monthly subscription, you can program lightshows, then record final dmx tracks in vstlive, then decide to unsubscribe from it (or not).
I’ve done something similar before, only with Lightkey instead of DMXDesktop and with Cubase sending MIDI to LightKey.
I’ll definitely take a look at DMX Desktop, though, since LightKey is only available as a subscription model. Thanks for the tip!
In combination with VST Live, however, it still doesn’t make sense for me, since I know I can trust Cubase, so I would continue to use that to control the external software then.
Thanks also for the tip about the line tool. It works in the lower zone. And the drawing tool works there too. But that brings me straight to the next problem: the time resolution offered by the editor is far too low for usable light curves. My BPM are currently set to 180 and when I am drawing very steep curves only about 10 points are drawn. So it’s using only a fraction of the 256 possible values and the output framerate is probably very low.
Well, Dmx protocol is 30-40 hz if I remember well, so it is not reproducing hundreds of points in a split second anyway.
Regarding VSTLive vs cubase … true if you only use a fraction of possibilities given by VSTLive.
Video play and live rec, lyrics for singers, backings, iem sends to band members, etc etc … multi song playlist and config (ordered , not all on one cubase project, in VSTLive all songs are like a separate cubase project).
Secondly, I plan to record the Dmx show on one Dmx track in VSTLive and gig without usage at external program.
Edit: in earlier versions on VSTLive lines where drawing with a lot more points, but tracks would become very heavy to load. Then a algorithm has been introduced to reduce events number based on Dmx protocol frequency, so anyway, even if you had hundreds of points , the reproducible ones by Dmx protocols are the same that you obtain when drawing in Dmx editor now.
Ah, now I see that it’s only the line tool drawing too few points. WHY?!? With the drawing tool, I could probably actually reach 40 Hz (this tool is quite difficult to handle though). And why is it that once I use the line tool on a channel where I drew some other points with the drawing tool, all point on the channel get quantised?!
I didn’t buy VSTLive just for DMX. I bought it to have a single solution for everything and to improve the workflow when setting up songs a little. But as long as the DMX function doesn’t work, it doesn’t make sense for me to set up my entire live project in VSTLive, since I don’t need video or lyrics. All the other things you mentioned can also be done in Cubase. For IEM, cues or send FX send channels can be used. Setlists can be set up using the arranger window, where you can easily change the order of songs, etc., even if all songs are in a timeline, which is of course a disadvantage.
Don’t get me wrong, I really wanted to like this software. But selling and advertising it the way they do doesn’t seem right to me given the state of this product. I’m not surprised there’s no trial version for VSTLive, because I’m sure there are many people like me who wouldn’t have bought it if they had had the opportunity to try it out first.
There is a free version of DmxDesktop - limited to 1 universe and does not run in DJ mode. Works for me!
The only thing I don’t like about it is that you have to link it to a FaceBook account and reauthorise it periodically, which can be a pain if you forgot to do that before a gig.
Would also mention that there are a few DMX apps out there (FreeStyler, dot2 etc) that can be controlled either by MIDI commands or linked with MIDI timecode to record back into VSTL - we were doing that back in VSTL1.
One more DMX bug: Tried running this simple chain of events. The event in the DIMMER track puts the dimmer of the light to 100% and events on the WW track turn on/off the warm white LEDs. Every on/off event is exactly a 16th note long. Running it at 160 BPM gives me just stutterings. Here’s a video that shows what the light is doing:
Again something that makes the DMX part of the software completely unusable.
Maybe try again in last dev. Pre release, this time draw a bar long event and put in one single event the on/off each 16th for a bar, then drag duplicate the entire bar, maybe a 16th only event cause some problem to emerge
Are you talking about the DMX Input Mixer? Do you expect the fader states to be restored when loading the project?
Interestingly, this was requested just a few minutes ago in another thread. We hadn’t considered this use case before, but I’ve now added it to the feature requests.
Those requests are already on our list.
Well, I can’t share any roadmap plans. However, I can tell you whether a request is planned or not — just feel free to ask.
If you run into issues, problems, or crashes, we’re here to help get them resolved.
We’ve decided to release a pre-release every Friday to address issues quickly and to introduce new improvements or features.
That’s strange. It is reproduciable every time? Maybe there is also another app which has access to the DMX device. Please use only one app for DMX.
That’s not good - and we weren’t aware of this issue. Could you please describe how to reproduce it? Alternatively, could you provide an example project?
I agree.
I know your request about ramps. And it is on our list.
But “signature changes”. You cannot edit them like it is handled now? You would need an editor in the lower zone?
And can you give me some more feedback about your problems in the automation editor?
Thank you!
That’s unfair and not accurate. I agree that a new pre-release can sometimes introduce side effects, but we always address them quickly and directly.
If you don’t like the pre-release strategy, we recommend waiting for the public version to be released via the Steinberg Download Assistant (SDA).
@YamenFahham, you’ve been extremely helpful. With your support, we were able to identify the VPN-related issues on Windows — that’s great. And you were helpful in so many other topics. Thank you.
I guess, the idea is to insert signature changes directly on the timeline without having to do this in the event list in the inspector. Which would be pretty nice, imho.
