If ATMOS is supported at one stage, this will not be to the detriment of the rest of the application.
Also, WaveLab is not meant to overall with complex surround apps such as Nuendo.
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I think the inner pipes exist but seems to be deliberately crippled in favour of Nuendo.
Nuendo is great and I love it but its finds it use mostly in ADR/Dialouge Foley/SFX and Ambience.
Fingers crossed it happens. 
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I hope it does not. Why not use Nuendo which is MADE FOR surround sound authoring…?
If ATMOS is supported at one stage, this will not be to the detriment of the rest of the application.
Also, WaveLab is not meant to overall with complex surround apps such as Nuendo.
Thanks for the heads up.
Actually, what would be cool would be a ‘basic’ Atmos add on … to allow for sequencing of albums from already created ADM/BWF files and a ‘master’ section like we already have. In other words, Import Dolby Atmos ADM BWF files and sequence them on the timeline.
Dolby already has a solution for this … the Dolby Atmos Album Assembler:: Dolby Atmos Album Assembler - Dolby Professional - Dolby Professional
They seem to envisage this as a mastering tool for music.
From my humble perspective, this simplified Dolby Atmos function would be useful in a practical way that doesn’t involve a full Nuendo style authoring and mixing solution.
This is because it is emerging that artists may have their ADM mixed by different engineers over the course of an album. As happens all the time with stereo projects. It’s entirely foreseeable that we will be asked to sequence and level balance these for the album release … with or without some subtle plugins on the master section that affect each ADM clip. From my limited under-the-hood understanding of ADM rendering, clip based plugin structures would likely present challenges to implement … hence the reference to a master section.
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That’s basically what I’ve been saying. The super creative part of ATMOS can be done in Pro Tools/Logic/Cubase/Nuendo, but the Dolby Atmos Album Assembler leaves a lot to be desired and Steinberg could easily create something better using what already exists in WaveLab as a starting point.
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’ … but the Dolby Atmos Album Assembler leaves a lot to be desired’
That’s being somewhat kind. There’s a rapidly emerging ‘gap in the market’.
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Exactly. I mentioned this to Steinberg quite awhile ago when ATMOS first started rolling out to music. I’m not sure where Pyramix is at with album assembly and ATMOS but whoever makes a decent ATMOS album assembler first will have a lot of new users.
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Agreed. Mastering is not mixing.
The techniques to master spatial audio using a virtual mix bus, mono plugins, and a bunch of linking already exist.
What we need is a piece of software that does that correctly behind the scenes and makes the workflow for that and the album/metadata/etc. authoring straightforward. Hopefully, WL will be that software. But, we’ll just have to wait and see.
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Right. The lines are slightly more blurred when it comes to ATMOS vs. stereo but I personally don’t really think WaveLab needs to be a full-featured ATMOS workstation, but after hearing @Michael_Romanowski on a podcast when ATMOS first came to Apple Music, he made it clear that we need a few tools in the mastering world for handling ATMOS to finalize EPs and albums, possibly even singles.
This was before the Dolby Atmos Album Assembler existed but I really think Steinberg has lost time in adding something basic like that to WaveLab, and should do it as soon as possible because it would be inherently better due to all the existing album authorizing things that WaveLab already has that the Dolby Atmos Album Assembler will likely never have.
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Appreciate the conversation here and add my name to those that would eagerly welcome Atmos integration into WL. The Album Assembler offers very basic sequencing capabilities that fill a huge void that existed previously but the Limiter and EQ built in are almost useless. Based on the way it has been updated so far I don’t think it will add the ability for plugins or any upgraded tools for mastering anytime soon.
Wavelab has the potential to be a much more sophisticated and effective program for sequencing, mastering and authoring. I am a nuendo, pro tools and logic user for Atmos capabilities and find what Steinberg has done to be the best integration so far.
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So…Colt Capperune (YT) seems to have convinced part of the internet music world that the sky is falling over the last 2 days. The second video is, IMO, necessary, and it discusses how this is definitely “inside baseball” from a handful of engineers and reps.
For whatever it’s worth, I think that the option needs to exist, in WL Pro, to work on ADM files directly as simply as possible.
I honestly have questions about the value of monitoring on a full 7.1.4 or higher system, considering how few people are ever going to hear it in the wild. But…WL doing the ADM authoring, the virtual mixbus + sidechaining and linking stuff, and exporting…while monitoring through different renderers via playback processing…seems like it’s about to be necessary for WL to continue to be an option. Even if it’s limited to very few tools/plugins at first.
ETA: If he’s wrong, please discuss. I don’t like Atmos and don’t want to jump through the hoops if I don’t have to.
Well, I would temper the enthusiasm of that guy. I doubt the whole industry will ever depend on an audio format that is the property of a single company (Dolby) and that is tied to a non-free license.
Philippe
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I don’t think it’s so unthinkable in the world we live in anno 2024.
As an example, many, even companies, decide not to build a blog on their own domain, but rather base their “blog” on Medium.com.
Likewise, many internet users add “… reddit” to their Google search queries – making Reddit almost a “sub internet” I feel.
OT examples, I know. But back to Dolby and Atmos:
It’s what “scares me” about Atmos, tbh. That a proprietary, expensive to license, format, is being pushed SO HARD by Apple, one of the world’s largest tech companies.
Even on Apple’s radio stations the hosts are pimping Atmos / Spatial Audio, talking about how this and that new album sounds “soooooo amazing and like you’re right there” … in Spatial.
Apple and Dolby could’ve made it an open standard. Made the authoring plugin free. And Apple would STILL make lots of money selling Spatial Audio enabled products. But no, that’s not the route they chose.
And my personal take on Atmos is that it sounds horrendous and distant. I’ve only heard a few Atmos mixes that sounded good. A few. Out of hundreds.
But the consumers… who knows what they’ll “swallow raw” and just adopt… because “it’s the new thing”…
I really hope Atmos won’t catch on. But it probably will.
… Adding yet another thing music producers have to spend their time on.
I am of the opinion that immersive audio, particularly in the context of immersive music, stands to gain significantly when composition, arrangements, aesthetics, and creativity are tailored with this medium in mind right from the start.
Currently, many old catalogs are being remixed for Atmos and reissued, yet, in my humble opinion, they often sound akin to what I would term an “expanded stereo” experience.
On the other hand, there are albums, typically more recent ones, that truly excel in Atmos.
It becomes apparent that the artist had the immersive concept in mind, contributing to a truly remarkable auditory experience.
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ATMOS is a way for record companies to “resell” their catalogs yet again. It is an attempt to get the consumer to purchase more of the same albums they already have on CD. Some car manufactures are planning on incorporating ATMOS systems in their cars at exorbitant prices and for what end??? Not buying it (literally) and so far I have not had any clients want to used it as a medium when I do mastering for them. FWIW
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Adding to the voices saying that the true power and future of Immersive Audio/Atmos is in artists/producers adopting the format and recording knowing this is the final destination. Stereo is awesome, it has been an effective medium for many years to deliver excellent audio, there is nothing wrong with stereo it is not broken.
Stereo is 2d, Atmos/Immersive Audio is 3d. Atmos is an exciting and fun format for a creative minded musician to explore. More true to the visions we have and hear in our minds.
The labels will always find ways to monetize their content. IMO Apple and Dolby are not ruining anything in music. There are some awful mixes done in Atmos of old albums but most of those were early on and have been replaced as engineers have started to figure out the format.
Spatial Audio in headphones is two channel binaural audio and is not true Dolby Atmos. Early on it was mostly terrible it has improved a lot. Listen to Billie Eilish, Harry Styles recent albums for good examples of good mixing practices that translate well to speakers and headphones. True Atmos is meant to be listened to in speakers, Sonos has good ones for this, Bose, Sony, etc automobiles coming soon.
Still, if the engineer knows what they are doing Headphone Binaural audio of Dolby Atmos will beat the stereo mix every time.
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Having been involved in a number of projects that involve an Atmos ADM as part of the deliverables (to be clear, I only did the stereo the Atmos was done by the mix engineers) I can say that one of the stumbling blocks to Atmos nirvana for the average and even some of my label clients is ‘budget’.
But I still stand by my earlier observation above: what would be valuable would be a ‘basic’ Atmos add on … to allow for sequencing of albums from already created ADM/BWF files and a ‘master’ section like we already have. In other words, Import Dolby Atmos ADM BWF files and sequence them on the timeline.
And something like that is likely to be ‘in budget’.
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Hi Paul
One thing I have seen help budget concerns with client indie and label artists mixing for Stereo + Atmos is a workflow that mixes for both formats simultaneously. Sometimes we are utilizing the 2.0 stereo fold down of Atmos mix for final stereo mix, then master the stereo mix in traditional method, bring that Stereo Master back to the Atmos session to try and match the esthetics of the stereo master in the atmos master.
I am guessing you have had some experience with this type of workflow as well. Longer conversation but we have seen some great returns on certain projects and lowers budget by not completely separating stereo and atmos mixing.
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