[Dorico 3.5] problem with condensed section players and divisi labels

Sorry if i am doubling the issue, but I’ve found only this related post: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=189487.
But I’m not sure if it’s about the same problem…

However, the labels of condensed section players do not reflect what is indicated in ‘divisi’, as can be seen from the attachment.

The problem also occurs in old projects opened in 3.5.

Thanks
bug_divisi_label.dorico.zip (355 KB)

I’m sorry to say I don’t quite understand what you’re reporting, mati. Are you talking about the staff labels in the left margin, or the player labels above the first bar of each system, or something else?

I’m talking about the staff labels in the left margin.

For example, if I have to notate 4 cellos soli that play the same note (no staves added, only one), I create a Divisi with the new group name “4 Vc. Soli”. But the staff label doesn’t change in the condensed score.

An more concrete example from the score I’m working on:

  • The cellos staff changes to ‘1. Vc solo’.
  • In spite of the new name to the staff through Divisi function, the (condensed) score does not reflect the change and remains ‘Vc.’.

Moreover, the label above the staff is added manually.


Dear mati,
I wouldn’t have thought to use the divisi function that way, because what happens to the other players (gli altri)?
Have you tried a more conventional use of divisi like 4 Vc. soli in one staff and gli altri in the other staff? Then hide that empty staff?

Dear Marc,

thanks for taking time to check that.

The score I’m working on is enormous… the more space I save, the better! However, it is a rather conventional use, especially in certain contemporary music, where the use of divisi is often quite complex (condensing for section players is a godsend!).

However, of the whole section, only 4 cellos play. The others are silent.
Before the new version 3.5, everything was as expected: change the staff labels in divisi, and the score shows the change.
In short, music writing requires only one staff, so it is sufficient to modify the label to have a clear and direct way to indicate the change (which, among other things, propagates automatically to subsequent systems).
But with the condensing feature applied to the section players, there’s no way to show the divisi customized label when only one staff is involved.
For example:

  • I write three homorhythmic lines for the cellos, changing divisi to three groups and modifying the staff label to ‘a 3’.
  • I activate the condensing function (extending the property to section players)
  • Great… now the three separate staves become one
  • the staff label, however, doesn’t change to ‘Vc. a 3’.

Dear Mati,
I just checked whether my idea was dumb or something, but here is what I have achieved.
I put a divisi at the start of the system where only 4 soli play. I add a solo part in the divisi editor, which I rename 4 Vc. soli. The others are automatically named gli altri. I end the divisi at the end of the system. Now my score shows me notes on the soli staff and rests on the altri staff. In the divisi editor, towards the bottom of the window, I choose to hide the group name, so that only the divisi names appear. I double click the system break at the beginning of divisi, and the new show/hide staff editor appears. I choose to hide gli altri staff and that’s it. Not sure that covers your needs, but this is what I have understood about your issue. Hope it helps !

Dear Marc,
I only wonder if the fast and direct way of changing the staff label in divisi, when the condensing function (extended to section payers) is applied, doesn’t work for a bug, for choice or for architectural limitations.

Ok Mati, that makes sense now. I admit I have not had the time to explore these roads (heavy schedule here for two weeks now…), but I think this will make your questions clearer for the Team.

Thanks for the clarification. The fundamental issue here is that we decided not to use the divisi group names in staff labels for condensed divisi passages, but we’ll take a look at what it would take to make this possible in a forthcoming update. It’s reasonably complicated stuff, but I expect we’ll be able to do something.

Only a small update, since I did some tests to get around the issue.
Nothing to do with the Marc’s method. Hiding the staff returns the label to the default state, ignoring the divisi changes.
I had some extra hope by using a local condensing change, applying a ‘no condensing’ zone’ on the region. But, even in this case, nothing to do.

p.s.: of course I’m talking about a condensed score.

In general, using condensing for strings (or other section players I guess), hide any extra staff label other than the basic name of it.
Fx. I have in my score only a Double bass solo only for few pages, without the tutti. To save space, I decide not to show the tutti stave, only the solo one. If I heave the score without condensing, then the solo staff label is shown as I wrote it (CB. solo). If I activate condensing, the solo staff label disappear, instead leaving a blank space.
The same is with the staff labels names above the staves involved in a divisi.
For the moment, the only solution I found is to exclude from condensing groups any section with this issues and wait for a new update where this things are (hopefully) be solved.
Thank you Daniel for taking this in consideration, as well as other requests :slight_smile:

Also, if you are working on improving the divisi part of the software, maybe it could be a good idea to have an option in Engrave mode where we can set the default staff label text for all divisi in the score.
For the tutti division dorico shows only gli altri by default, which is great. But for some scores, there is often only altri or Tutti.
Also numbering section, some preffer to gave a dot after the number : Vla 1. and Vla 2.
Would be nice to have a unified system for all of them instead of following all the divisi changes and check if there is the right text or not.
THank you!