Any approach to successfully persuade Native Instruments to support VST3 among their products?
If you look at the NI forums, the usual response from other NI users to a request for VST3 is something like “we can use all the features that are already in NI sample libraries without VST3, so it’s a waste of time”.
NI doesn’t want to be compatible with the rest of the world. They make more profit if you have to buy everything from them.
Many thanks for the offer, I’m not sure, yet. Silent Drummer is on Windows and it could be that on Mac we get a little more information out of the system, but I need to discuss with other engineers first.
I’ll get back to you if need arises.
I’ve just worked through the process of removing the v3 audio engine configuration data in order to see what I had to do to get Kontakt 6 loaded. Please try the following to see if it works for you:
- Ensure Dorico and the audio engine aren’t running
- Open %APPDATA%\Steinberg in Explorer and rename VSTAudioEngine3_64 to something like VSTAudioEngine3_64.saved (so that later you can copy any other changes from your whitelist file)
- run Dorico. It will re-initialise the audio engine directory, and if you had an whitelist file for Dorico 2 then it will migrate that
Dorico should now have initialised, but it won’t pick up Kontakt 5 or 6 yet because the plugin path hasn’t yet been set, so do this:
4. Create a new empty project
5. Do Preferences > Play > VST Plugin Paths…
6. Add the location of Kontakt, eg for me it’s C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit
7. Close and restart Dorico
Dorico now shows ‘Kontakt’ (6) and ‘Kontakt 5 16 out’. It isn’t necessary to add ‘Kontakt’ to the whitelist as it’s already in our internal whitelist.
you might have seen this thread: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=167814
The issue with that guy was a line ending thing, just carriage return without a linefeed.
You may also try this out, though from my perspective, this is different to your case here.
Unfortunately, we did not get much further on the case, please be a bit more patient. Many thanks.
Sorry Paul, no dice for me on this.
Sadly Dorico 3 fails to recognize Kontakt even when I’m not using a whitelist. For now I am working through VEP, so not a pressing matter, but still inconvenient.
Today I got a clean MacBook with 10.14.6, installed Dorico 3 and then Kontakt 5 and 6 with the latest version as provided by Native Access. Then started Dorico and both Kontakts appeared.
Kontakt 5 has here with me version 5.8.1(R43) and Kontakt 6 is v6.1.1 (R66). What version of the plug-ins are you guys running?
Also, I want the mac users to try the following:
- Open a Terminal window and do
cd /Applications/Dorico 3.app/Contents/Applications/VSTAudioEngine3.app/Contents/Components/VSTPlugManager.bundle/Contents/Resources
./vst2xscanner -p /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/Kontakt\ 5\ 16out.vst
and if you have Kontakt 6 then also
./vst2xscanner -p /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/Kontakt.vst
What does happen?
Here with me, after a few seconds it spits out following text:
/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/Kontakt 5 16out.vstInstrument5653544E694F376B6F6E74616B7420355653454E694F376B6F6E74616B742035Kontakt 5 16outNative Instruments GmbHVST 126.96.36.199.00001103
With the lines above you just invoked the plug-in scanner manually. This is exactly that, what Dorico resp. the audio engine also does for every plug-in that it finds in the search path. So it is the output of this, that decides if a plug-in gets blacklisted.
On Windows this works similarly, but putting in the paths is more complicated and you have to know what you are doing.
I have problems with the UVIWorkstationVST being blacklisted, so I did the following:
./vst2xscanner -p /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/UVIWorkstationVST.vst
The output is:
So definitely this is not what should happen.
Okay, thanks for confirming. Yes, that should not happen. How about the version of UVI, is it up to date?
And does it load in Dorico 2, but not in Dorico 3?
Also to anyone else who does the manual execution of the vst2xscanner:
Before launching the vst2xscanner, please run the Console app.
Then, while the vst2xscanner is doing it’s job, have a look under ‘Mac Analytics’ or ‘system.log’ if there are events from the respective plug-in appear.a
One of our engineers has the suspicion that it could have to do with Apple’s new ‘hardened runtime’.
On the other hand, Windows users are also affected, but could be just that we are chasing two issue.
In any case, please report also the OS version number you are on.
My UVI version is the latest: 3.0.5
It does load fine in Dorico 2
MacOS Version 10.14.6
There is a crash log written in User Reports, where shall I send it?
Please send to ‘u dot stoermer at steinberg dot de’. Thanks
With the help of user fauvel we got a little bit further, at least on the case with UVIWorkstation.
The vstscanner crashes because of a codesigning issue and therefore blacklists the plug-in.
We prepared Dorico and all it’s components for OSX Catalina and therefore enabled hardened runtime.
Under these circumstances, when the vstscanner loads a plug-in, the hardened runtime checks for a proper code signature of the plug-in.
If it does not find one, it simply bails out. That’s what seems to happen with UVIWorkstation.
Consequently, we would be grateful if also people with Kontakt or Play on Mac could do the same check (manually invoking the vstscanner from terminal, as described earlier in the thread), so we can establish that it is the same issue.
On Windows this all does not applya, though also on Win Kontakt might not load, but that is a different issue where we are still in the dark.
I’m running windows 10, so not applicable to me in this case. But happy to test on windows if you provide directions. I am an engineer by trade so hopefully won’t hose my system
I tried this for Play 6 and got the “Killed 9” result.
Here’s what Mac Analytics in console had to say: (running Mojave 10.14.16)
com.apple.message.signature2: UNBUNDLED ||| ??? (0)
Again a posting for the Mac users only:
User fauvel sent me a zip with his UVI plug-in and that passes the vstscanner here on my MacBook with 10.14.6, no problem. Btw, user fauvel is also on 10.14.6.
And also a download from UVI results in no problems.
So the fact that the same bundle passes the vstscanner on one machine but fails on another, leads me to the assumption that there must be a switch or setting in the OS that causes this.
Is there maybe something that you applied to your OS (maybe via System Preferences or so) that you could imagine having the described impact?
Hello Mac users,
I’m happy to announce that we have found the cause of the issue.
With 10.14 Apple introduced System Integrity Protection.
Part of this protection is, that every app and bundle need to be code signed in order to get executed.
UVIWorkstation is code signed, but must have got modified after the signing procedure, so the code signature is wrong.
Our vstscanner runs in that protected environment and when loading UVIWorkstation the wrong code signature gets detected and consequently bails out.
Therefore UVIWorkstation ends up on the blacklist and will not get shown in Dorico.
So for a proper fix UVI has to properly code sign their plug-in bundle.
We will get in touch with UVI and notify them about it.
There were reports about Aria Play also not loading in Dorico.
I downloaded the latest version of Play and that works fine here, so I assume that affected people are on an older version of Play.
Please do an update to the latest version.
If you can’t wait for a fix from UVI, there is a workaround, but it is a bit risky, so we can’t officially announce the workaround here.
Should you still want to know that workaround, send a mail to ‘u dot stoermer at steinberg dot de’ and I will provide you with further information.
So much for the Mac, next I will focus on Windows and see if we can also find a workaround on that platform. Stay tuned.
By the way, here the answer from UVI support:
“This behaviour is related to PACE which is used by UVI products, and it seems it will be fixed out with next PACE updates hopefully.”
I have Dorico 3 installed on both MacBook Pro and Windows10 PC. Mac is able to connect to Kontakt 5 but PC is having the trouble. I do not know if it makes any difference but I upgraded from Dorico 1 to 3 on Mac and from Dorico 2 to 3 on PC. When I tried to whitelist again Kontakt this did not help. Actually Kontakt 5 that previously worked in Dorico 2 stopped working in both versions. This site is a little bit messy because of different operation systems and Dorico versions. How to proceed with Dorico 3 on Windows 10 Pro platform with Kontakt 5 issue?