Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

[alindsay55661]

@PaulWalmsley

I’ve been looking at the logs that you uploaded and found a couple of things that may have clouded the picture. There are a few crashes in there, and so it could be that setting the VST paths didn’t ‘stick’ because the engine crashed shortly after. Firstly, I would advise disabling the ‘suspend audio device in background’ option because we’ve found cases where it can cause problems. Secondly, I see that you’re using the ASIO Generic Low Latency device rather than the native ASIO drivers for your devices, so I would change to use the proper ASIO driver. Once you’ve made those changes, then hopefully that should stabilise things a bit so we can work out what’s going on with Kontakt.

Confirmed, changing my audio settings solved the VST path sticking problem after completely deleting the VSTAudioEngine3_64 folder. Thank you!

@Ulf

Attached to this posting is a zip file containing 2 xml files. Please copy those two files to /Users//AppData/Roaming/Steinberg/VSTAudioEngine3_64 and let it override the existing ones.
And, at the same location you find the file ‘Module Cache.xml’, simply delete that one.

Then, open Dorico and start with a project from the piano template. Go to Play Mode and check if Kontakt does appear in the list of available VST-instruments.
If it does, then choose Kontakt. Does it crash? I would not wonder, because there was a (still unknown) reason that the plug-in scanner did blacklist it before.

Kontakt still not available unfortunately.

@PaulWalmsley

I’ve just tried this with Kontakt Player 6 and it loads for me without problems. Dorico already whitelists ‘Kontakt5 16 Out’ and ‘Kontakt’ so you shouldn’t need it in your own whitelist file.

I’d suggest:

• copy your current whitelist file and edit it to remove the Kontakt entries from it
• delete C:\Users{username}\AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\VSTAudioEngine3_64 directory
• start Dorico again so it recreates the default configuration
• Open a project in Dorico then in Preferences > Play edit the VST plugin paths again to add C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit
• Restart Dorico

I’ve now bee testing with no whitelist at all, but the problem persists. For what it’s worth, Kontakt gets put onto the blacklist immediately after clicking “OK” in the VST2 paths dialog, no program restart required (but I still tested this anyway). My next test is to completely remove Dorico 3 and reinstall.

[dspreadbury]

I’m afraid I don’t think uninstalling and reinstalling Dorico will have any bearing on this – the question is why Kontakt is getting blacklisted on your system. For the answer to that question I’m afraid I think you need to wait for Ulf to come back to you.

[alindsay55661]

Your fears are confirmed. Full removal and reinstall did nothing to address the problem. I’m stumped!

[alindsay55661]

For your information, here is the latest diagnostic report after a fresh install: Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

[Rob_Tuley]

One of my computing mentors from way back used to say “when all else fails, assume the error message actually means what it says”.

Is it possible Dorico is blacklisting the Kontakt VST simply because there is something wrong with your installation of Kontakt?

Does Kontakt work in any other apps on your PC?

Have you tried deleting and reinstalling Kontakt, as well as Dorico?

[Silent_Drummer]

I´m having the same problem with Dorico 3 Pro. I hope there will be a happy end to this soon…

[Ulf]

@alindsay55661

For your information, here is the latest diagnostic report after a fresh install: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXWCIORUHJqvKvb8?e=UwwlDf

Thanks for the data. This is all totally weird. According to the latest log it said:
2019-09-06 10:35:51 : Plugin refused: Komplete Kontrol.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:51 : Plugin accepted: Kontakt 5 16out.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin refused: Kontakt 5 8out.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin refused: Kontakt 5.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin accepted: Kontakt.dll

So Kontakt and Kontakt 5 16out got accepted. Why does it not turn up in the list of instruments in Dorico then?

Can we try something different then. You say it works in Dorico 2.
Under AppData/Roaming/Steinberg is also a VSTAudioEngine2_64 folder. If you go into that one and delete the Module Cache.xml file and then start Dorico 2, does Kontakt still get recognized by Dorico or also blacklisted?

In 99% of all cases, when a plug-in gets blacklisted, then because it is crashing in the vstscanner. This is an additional program that acts as a safeguard. It tries to load all plug-ins once and sort those out that make trouble, so that the audio engine later only meets well behaved plug-ins.

This is all so weird, I propose we do a TeamViewer session next week, where I can see your desktop and see myself. In what timezone do you live?

[Ulf]

@Silent Drummer

I´m having the same problem with Dorico 3 Pro. I hope there will be a happy end to this soon…

Could you please also post a diagnostic report? Maybe your case is different, you can never rule it out.

[alindsay55661]

@Ulf

@alindsay55661

For your information, here is the latest diagnostic report after a fresh install: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXWCIORUHJqvKvb8?e=UwwlDf

Thanks for the data. This is all totally weird. According to the latest log it said:
2019-09-06 10:35:51 : Plugin refused: Komplete Kontrol.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:51 : Plugin accepted: Kontakt 5 16out.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin refused: Kontakt 5 8out.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin refused: Kontakt 5.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin accepted: Kontakt.dll

So Kontakt and Kontakt 5 16out got accepted. Why does it not turn up in the list of instruments in Dorico then?

Can we try something different then. You say it works in Dorico 2.
Under AppData/Roaming/Steinberg is also a VSTAudioEngine2_64 folder. If you go into that one and delete the Module Cache.xml file and then start Dorico 2, does Kontakt still get recognized by Dorico or also blacklisted?

In 99% of all cases, when a plug-in gets blacklisted, then because it is crashing in the vstscanner. This is an additional program that acts as a safeguard. It tries to load all plug-ins once and sort those out that make trouble, so that the audio engine later only meets well behaved plug-ins.

This is all so weird, I propose we do a TeamViewer session next week, where I can see your desktop and see myself. In what timezone do you live?

I completely removed Dorico 2 and 3, include Steinberg Roaming App data. I then resinstalled both versions + components + content.

Dorico 2

I started by opening Dorico 2 and adding the Native Instruments path for VST2. Everything works as expected:

Diagnostics of the working Dorico 2 are available here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXYRg8N7nEQujLxb?e=JNbzcb

Dorico 3

I then opened Dorico 3 and followed the same steps, adding the Native Instruments VST2 path. Sadly, Kontakt shows up in the blacklist file, and is not available in the UI:

Diagnostics of the failing Dorico 3 are available here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXdMHRJqBSacBlRK?e=RYEGiG

I’m afraid there is nothing more I can do without guidance on your end. I am happy to screen share to facilitate troubleshooting.

[Ulf]

Alindsay55661, I’m completely puzzled about this. Let’s do a screen sharing session. Please send a mail to ‘u dot stoermer at steinberg dot de’ with convenient time slots for you (and what time zone you are in).

[Silent_Drummer]

@Ulf

@Silent Drummer

I´m having the same problem with Dorico 3 Pro. I hope there will be a happy end to this soon…

Could you please also post a diagnostic report? Maybe your case is different, you can never rule it out.

Hi Ulf, here a link to the Dorico Diagnostics Report (could not post it here because the file is too big…) :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nljudhspli50ye/Dorico%20Diagnostics.zip?dl=0

[Ulf]

@Silent Drummer

Hi Ulf, here a link to the Dorico Diagnostics Report (could not post it here because the file is too big…) :

Yes, same issue. As you seem to be in the same time zone as me, would you be able to have a screen sharing session with me, maybe even today?
I’m sending you a private mail with my telephone number.
I really would like to sort this out soon, as more and more are affected by it.

[Ulf]

I just had a very long screen sharing session with Silent Drummer and I tried several things on his computer but could not get to the bottom of this. I need to wait until Monday when I’m back to the office and can discuss with my colleagues.

Many thanks to Silent Drummer again for taking the time for me and everyone else affected by this.

[jose7822]

I’m new to Dorico 3 Pro, just cross-graded from Finale 25, and I’m experiencing something similar, except Kontakt 6 DOES show up for me.

However, there are other VST 2 synths and plugins that don’t, such as Eventide, Omnisphere, Soundtoys, Keyscapes, Toontrack and Synthogy Ivory (possibly others too). I admit I haven’t tried all of the things suggested here, since I just stumbled on this thread while looking for a solution. But I did do include all the paths that I have in Cubase 10 Pro and Studio One 4 Pro, both of which show all of my plugins without issue.

I will try the advice given here and will report back. Wish me luck!!

[dspreadbury]

jose7822, you’ll need to whitelist the specific VST2.x plug-ins you want to use in Dorico. Check this support article.

[Nikola_Kolodziejczyk]

I am also affected by this, but it is on Dorico 3 Pro and UVIWorkstationVST is the blacklisted VST. It worked in Dorico 2, it is on the whitelist, but keeps getting added on the blacklist in Dorico 3 Pro. If there is a need for any data please do not hesitate to ask.
Edit: also, from the logs: it gets accepted during the routine check, but still gets on the blacklist somehow

[Ulf]

Thanks for the offer, but we have enough data. Also, we understand that the problem is not specific to a certain plug-in, but may occur with any.
We’ll further investigate and report back.

[jose7822]

@Daniel at Steinberg

jose7822, you’ll need to whitelist the specific VST2.x plug-ins you want to use in Dorico. Check this support article.

Thanks Daniel!

I got lucky and was able to add the most needed plugins to the whitelist text document file, so now they show up in Dorico. I left a bunch of my UAD, and others, out for now (may add them later). Hopefully you guys can help the OP too!

May I suggest using whatever method Cubase/Nuendo use that automatically finds all your plugins as long as the paths are set correctly in the Plugin Manager? I understand you’re trying to keep Dorico as streamline as possible. But, at the same time, I feel like this is an inconvenience placed on the users, that doesn’t even save you any trouble since I’m sure this has to be one of the most asked question by new users (at least I assume that given what’s needed from the user in order to make VST 2 plugins work in Dorico).

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, there’s still a LOT of plugin developers not jumping on the VST3 protocol. Please don’t penalize your users because of them .

Thanks again!!

[alindsay55661]

@Ulf

Thanks for the offer, but we have enough data. Also, we understand that the problem is not specific to a certain plug-in, but may occur with any.
We’ll further investigate and report back.

Doe this mean you no longer need to screen share with me? Let me know otherwise. My timezone is MST, but I typically have early UK meetings so am good for GMT+1 3pm+. On September 9 I have availability at GMT+1 3:30pm or anytime after 4:30pm.

[ShikiSuen]

Any approach to successfully persuade Native Instruments to support VST3 among their products?