Dorico 4 - Deleting expression maps does not reflect in realtime

When I delete an expression map that is no longer required it doesn’t disappear until I press OK and reload the express maps. It might be better if it would disappear in realtime so I don’t have to keep reloading. I might want to add or copy new expression maps at the same time.

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Hi any, can you share how you deleted them? There is a delete Bin button but it remains greyed out in my version. Instead I went into ~/Library/Application Support/Steinberg/Dorico 4/ on my Mac and deleted the EndPointConfigs of the VSL libraries I do not have but the expression maps remain visible.

It’s easy to click on the wrong wastebin in the EM display as there’s one for the EM and one articulations you’ve mapped within it. I may have been mistaken in the way Dorico was responding. I repeated the process just now and it worked fine. Your wastebin experience may be a different issue but on the matter of EMs the following may help.

To be honest sometimes I get confused between EPC and EMs. Let’s go through the steps together. Say you have a project containing a CSB Solo Trumpet. So the first thing you do apart from creating a slot for it in setup mode and the sample it will use in your project, is create an EM for it. Let’s call it CSB Solo Trumpet EM. You map the articulations for that sample and then press OK. Then you click on the cog under the solo trumpet in your project to open the EPC setup. You choose Solo Trumpet EM and you’re asked for a name for the EPC it sits within because the EPC is the parent file. You give the EPC a name, say CSB Solo Trumpet EPC and save it. You notice that the Solo Trumpet in your project immediately picks up the EPC name you’ve entered. You then decide you only need that instrument so select Play- Playback Template and enter a name for it, say CSB Solo Trumpet TP. and click on manual add. This displays all the EPCs you’ve created including the EPC for CSB Solo Trumpet. Note it is only the EPCs you see. The EM is just a part of the EPC and an EM can in theory be selected for several different EPCs if required.

So to answer your original question, when you delete an EPC you’re not in fact deleting the EM as it has a life of its own within your project and any time you want to go back to it and incorporate it in another project you can simply do so by including it in another EPC.

So to repeat, deleting an EPC does not remove the EM. That continues to be visible in your project when you click on Library Expression Maps. Only deleting it within you project will remove it but I tend to keep projects as a template so that I always have access to EMs I’ve created previously and can use them in other projects, changing as required if for some reason the mapping is different.

If you don’t think you will ever need it again you should be able to delete the EM within a project. Just make sure you’re selecting the wastebin symbol for the EM and not an articulation within an EM. My comment referred to the fact that having decided I needed to delete it the EM in question was not removed until I reloaded the Expression Maps for the whole project.

The other option that I think DS has mentioned is to export all the EMs you’ve created in your project to say a peer folder just like when someone asks you for a copy of your EM. In Library EMs you are able to export a doricolib so do that but keep it for yourself in a peer folder. Then you can import EMs from that straight into your new project.

I hope I haven’t confused you. If I have I apologise.

Thanks for the explanation on the differences between EPC and EM. Presently I have access issues with Dorico 4 but it is the same in 3.5.

As you mention there are several waste bins but that is not the issue. Deleting an articulation works fine but I cannot delete specific EMs as the waste bin is greyed out for them. It is random some are greyed out and for others the waste bin is active. I first thought it was related to the default EMs provided with Dorico note being deletable but it is not. Example HSO was installed with Dorico. Bass Clarinet; bin greyed out, HSO Bassoon solo; not greyed out. Clarinet Solo; not greyed out, Flute solo; not greyed out.

Also for the VSL library EMs it is like this: VSL SY Strings Pro are all with active bin but I want to keep those as I use them but e.g. VSL Syzd SE - EMs which I want to delete are greyed out except the VSL Syzd Woodwinds -High Woodwinds which coincidentally I do not want to delete as I use it.

Maybe the EM bin is only activated when the EM has been used once in a project even if it is not used anymore like the HSO ones in my case.

Dorico is a great program with an enormous amount of functionalities but the complexity of those sometimes leads to rather weird logic in the UI. A delete protection is a good thing but one should be able to suspend it e.g. with a right click menu option.

I see. I’ve not encountered that problem. In that case I think you would be better off talking Dorico support. Maybe it would be worth reinsalling the HSO samples because it sounds like some are not properly installed. You could go back to the Dorico install and re-install the HSO library.

All the HSO samples are greyed out with me. Are you quite sure that there are not modified user copies of some of them? I have never been able to delete any EM or playing technique for that matter that comes with Dorico.

On the other hand, it seems you can delete user-created EM’s which are in current use in the project – my memory was that it was not possible so I checked back with v3.5 but indeed you actually can – which is surely wrong. There is no dialogue warning either.

No I never used HSO for any projects. They are all just as they were installed but that is fine for me as I might use them in the future. I just want to delete the VSL ones for which I do not have the library. They are just clutter.

There are certainly factory playback templates and techniques that are protected from accidental deletion but I can’t see why it would not be possible to delete an expression map you have imported. To test it I just imported a Spitfire EM for a library I also don’t have and was able to delete it again without any difficulty. I suggest you send an email to and ask for John Barron’s assistance. Sorry I can’t help you more.

Very frustrating. I will do some research but this is definitely something you should refer to John Barron ( )

Send him a screenshot of the greyed-out parts.

One thought I had concerns projects in which you may have used your VSL EMs. There’s a filter in the EM display to only display those used in you current project. It’s possible that though a custom or imported VSL EM is displayed in the Library EM list for your current project it’s not actually being used in it, but maybe it was used in another project and therefore maybe Dorico protects it. You should probably open other projects that did use that particular instrument EM. Possibly they can be deleted in that/those other project(s). You may find the bin is not greyed out if you can find the project(s) in which it WAS used.

Thanks Andy, I will live with the clutter for now. It might actually be a VSL related issue. They provide excellent EM for both Dorico and Cubase for Synchron libraries but for some reason the installation program also by default adds a whole set for. Synchronized libraries.

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You could check your user library >Application support >Steinberg >Dorico 4 folder. VSL installs all the expression maps and playback templates there (on Mac) so I suppose you could get rid of everything you don’t need in those VSL folders.

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Thanks Marc, They are indeed there I actually stated in that directory. I now saw the EMs are merged in an xml file that contains all info for both VSL Synchron and related Synchronized instrument libraries. That is probably the reason why VSL installs EMs for libraries you do not have and also that you cannot delete anything as that would mean having to delete specific lines in a XML which is only possible in an XML text editor and even than there might be lines which involve both type of libraries.