Dorico 4 KeyEditor Improvement Suggestions

Hi Dorico team,
I would like to make few improvement suggestions related to the editing in the Key Editor.
The ideas are inspired by Cubase.

  1. Right mouse click inside the Key Editor to invoke the Midi Editing Tools:

  2. When the “Select” (Arrow Tool) is active and editing in the Key Editor, pressing and holding of
    the Alt button to switch to Pencil Tool. When we stop holding the Alt it shout return to “Select Tool”.

  3. Deleting MIDI notes by double left mouse click, instead of selecting note and navigating to the trash bin icon.

  4. Would be nice if we can have Triplet/Tuplet grid, not only regular and dotted. And ability to
    create tuplets inside the Key Editor, or transform them to regular note durations.

These 3 improvement will speed up the workflow in the Key Editor.
Since the plan is to make Dorico and Cubase working together, then Dorico should also
provide the same MIDI editing tools and workflow as Cubase. :slight_smile:

I hope you would think about to integrate them! :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:


You are not the first person to suggest the context menu from Cubase for choosing the current tool, and I agree this would be nice to add. You can already switch between the select and multi-select tools temporarily with Shift, and we will rework the tool selection a little further in future.


Hi Daniel,
Thank you for the reply! :slight_smile:
Would be really great if the workflow in the Key Editor become identical to Cubase and any other DAW, because all they work pretty much the same way. Currently only in Dorico it differs. And for
people who have good experience with it, the one in Dorico isn’t very comfortable.

Best regards,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

Hello everybody !
These requests are great. There’s also one thing in the key Editor.
The zoom tool in the Key Editor is usefull but the last notes of the last measure of each piece is always under this tool, which is a bit annoying when we need to tweak midi CC for these notes ? I think there’s enough place in the right part of the lower zone toolbar to place the zoom tool and avoid this problem.

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Thanks for the feedback on this, Cyril. We’ll definitely think about this.


Hello Daniel,
By the way some ideas could be taken from Cubase, for the improvement of the situation explained by Cyril. :slight_smile:
Here is a screenshot of the Key Editor in the Lower Zone in Cubase, with some notes:

In Cubase, for Horizontal zooming, I’m mostly using Ctrl + Mouse Wheel (would be nice if you add it to Dorico 4, too). Rarely G/H keys.
As you can see in Cubase the Zooming Tool is separated and there is distance in between.
Something that I don’t like in Cubase related to the zooming features:

  1. The distance between them.
  • I prefer to have them next to each other, or to be presented as single function with switching button
  1. In Cubase they look to tiny, which makes them not comfortable for using.
  • In Dorico 4 it is big enough and comfortable, just it should not cover any parts of the editing area.

On the following screenshot you can see how both Horizontal and Vertical Zooming are realized in
Studio One (enclosed in red):

Next to each other. :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

Also, the keyboard representation in the left part of the key Editor is too wide! These long keys are not easy to read when to read when the vertical zoom is very small. It’s easier when the keys are smaller as in Cubase, Dorico 3.5 and (since the example is visible in this tread, in Studio One).

Maybe they could be shorter. Thus, we could add icons in the column to access the interface of the VST instrument, and perhaps Solo and Mute icons

or make it floating/moveable. I agree that this is one of these little niggles which eventually starts to get to you.

I’m not a big fan of floating windows (that’s why I’m not working on a Mac :wink:). But I have to admin that being able to move it when needed would be a piece of improvement

A thing about the Key Editor on the iPad, that has bugged me, is the Transform Tool. If I select some notes in, say the right hand of a piano staff, and edit these with the Transform Tool, the notes in the left hand are also changed even though they are not selected. I don’t know if this is by design or whether this behaviour has found it’s way into the desktop version as well, but if it is and has, I strongly suggest to change it so that only selected notes are edited. This could be such a useful tool and I have used it a lot in Cubase, but as it stands right now it is rather useless, at least for piano music.

First photo is before the edit, second one after using Delta_Up/Down. Black velocities are selcted (staff a), pink ones unselected (staff b).

The solution is to turn on the IRV while in the play mode. The You have one midi track for each voice in your staff, In the case of the piano, it considers that each key is a separate voice. This is a really powerfull tool. :exploding_head:
And then, you can edit them separatly. You must connect the new midi track to a VST instrument to make it sound…

Ho, and dealing with the Transform Tool, when you select the very first measure of your staff with the Transform Tool, you can acces to the left tools. :scream:

I have not upgraded 3.5 to 4 yet, but does IRV not mean using separate VSTs for each voice? This would play havoc with the pedal.
Anyway, a tool should not change data, that has not been selected. That’s basically my point. And it should work the same way on desktop and iPad, where IRV workarounds are not available.

Yes, IRV is about assigning separate VST sounds/channels to different voices.

Well, it can be used for edit each voice separatly. I did it yesterday on a Chopin’s Nocturne. Then I used the same VST for each track since I was dealing with a piano.
But, reading your message, I realize that I can use different patches on each track and then deal with divisi in Strings, Woodwinds or Brass sections. Interesting !

Yes, I can see that IRV would be really useful for divisi.

The smart transform tool is currently editing everything inside the drawn frame (the same as in other DAWs). Use the great histogram tool - it can also be switched to ‘Selection’.

I have a suggestion/request feature for the Key Editor. I would think it would be such a valuable thing to be able to copy notes from the Cubase Key Editor, into the Dorico Key editor, by having the two programs running alongside. When I get to the stage of orchestration of a piece I wrote in Cubase, I find that just exporting a midi file from Cubase just does not cut it, because my cubase sessions are too complex and made to “sound” good, and not so much to make sense as a midi export, which then needs too much editing and “fixing” once imported to the notation software. There too many overdubbed tracks. So I would much prefer to copy and paste information from select tracks in cubase between the two Key Editors, and build my dorico score that way.
This would be an immensely powerful feature and would open up an amazing workflow between the two programs. Since Dorico came out this has been my main wish it would be able to do. The integration between the two programs is the thing that would attract me the most about switching to Dorico. Are there plans to make it possible to transfer notes between the two key editors? I really hope the answer is yes.

Hi @midimanpt,
Suggestion for something much powerful, that also includes your request was already discussed few times.
Real-time Dorico <-> Cubase synchronization. When this is available the notes entered in Dorico should automatically appear in Cubase and vice versa, depending on which one is used as primary.
We hope that the teams are thinking about such serious integration between both apps.

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

Hello Thurisaz,
My request is different from that. Although in some situations complete cubase synchronization as you describe may be useful, for my particular use I would not want that everything I write in Cubase appears automatically in Dorico, because as I described there will be many tracks from cubase that I would not want to have in Dorico. The real-time synchronization would be useful too. But instead of automatically having every cub track appear in Dorico, I would prefer to have specific access to just selectively copying and pasting notes or certain midi parts between the two key editors. Te the technology would be essentially the same I believe, but the usage would be somewhat different. Perhaps there can be a combination of the two features. Great to share ideas here in hope they get developed into future updates.

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