Dorico 5.1.30 + NotePerformer Issue

Hello Dorico team,
I hope you are all doing well there!
I would like to report a NP related problem after Dorico update to v 5.1.30.
The Iconica Sketch - Tubular Bells now sound octave lower than written. They are supposed sound as written.
There was the same problem before but Arne, from @Wallander was able to fix it. Now, it re-appeared in the latest Dorico version.

Best regards,
Thurisaz

Hmm, can you please ensure that regular NP doesn’t have the same problem, to rule out that the MIDI from Dorico is transposed?

We haven’t made any changes to the tubular bells instrument definition that would result in a change of octave. I don’t think this change can have been introduced by the Dorico 5.1.30 update.

Hello @dspreadbury and @Wallander,
Thank you for your reply! :slight_smile:

Arne, I have checked with the native NP library. Everything sounds fine with it. Exactly as expected. The problem occurs only while Iconica Sketch is engaged.
There is no transposition added by me. I’m using an older project that worked perfectly fine with the previous release of Dorico.

Best regards,
Thurisaz

If you apply one of the factory-supplied Iconica Sketch playback templates in Dorico (thus removing NotePerformer and the NPPE from the equation), do you find the same problem? What if you create a new project using a new default factory template and use one of the factory-supplied Iconica Sketch playback templates (again, keeping NotePerformer out of the equation)?

Hi Daniel,

Well, I have noticed a problem with the Factory-supplied Iconica Sketch PT, as well. In pristine project.
In order to produce D (D4) above middle C (C4), I have to write, or play D5 on my keyboard.
Here is the tonal range of the various Tubular Bells:
https://www.vsl.info/en/academy/percussion/tubular-bells#range

I hope this information is helpful!

Best regards,
Thurisaz

Apologies if my response is overly basic and something you have already considered but different sound libraries use different conventions for identifying pitches in different octaves. Your link is to a page on the VSL website and I wonder if the difficulty might relate to VSL and Steinberg using different octave identifiers?

I have always been surprised that the music industry just cant agree on octave numbers. It’s the cause of so much confusion for end users all the time.

I do notice Dorico has an option to set the octave numbering, which is brilliant.

This is just a side comment, not intended to solve the OP’s problem.

Here’s the page:

Changing the middle C numbering convention (steinberg.help)

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Hello @Mike_999 and @Andro ,

@Mike_999, the MIDI note conventions has direct impact on the sounding pitches. They are just naming systems, nothing more.
On the 88 keys piano, the middle C is always key #40, there is standardized MIDI note Numbering system where middle C is always key #60
In general the placement of instruments in the samplers follows the MIDI note numbering convention, not the naming ones.
MIDI note #60 can be named C3, C4 or C5.
@Andro, changing the naming won’t help in this situation, just because the Tubular Bells samples are placed on the wrong MIDI note numbers, octave higher than their proper place.
This is something that @dspreadbury should address to the Iconica Sketch library developers in order to be fixed.
Andro, you are right! The MIDI naming system needs to become a standard, too.
We don’t need 3 of them, one is more than enough. The same is valid for the Expression Maps systems across the various DAWs and Notation programs.
This would save so much time to EMs creators, and most of the Virtual Instruments developers would be able to afford to hire someone to create and support native EM sets for their libraries.
Well, the standardization is a long topic, and some of the big players, like Steinberg/Yamaha, Presonus, MakeMusic, AVID or Muse Group should start it. :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Thurisaz

Can I ask exactly what the NotePerformer version number is, as displayed when starting up NotePerformer?

Have you tried comparing the pitch of Tubular bells in HALion without resorting to NP? Comparing various Tubular bells with the GM version shows that the samples are themselves an octave apart. Even looking at the keyboard diagrams in HALion shows this.

As far as I can see, NP has nothing to do with this.

Hi Arne,
I’m using the latest version 4.4.0.
I have noticed that the problem is Iconica Sketch related as it appears in a newly created project where the library is hosted directly in Dorico. Just the Tubular Bells samples are place wrongly an octave higher.
So the library developers should fix the issue, and check in case there are some others instruments that aren’t in their correct MIDI note number positions.
I’m not using the entire Iconica Sketch library, so I haven’t checked the entire library. I’m combining the Sketch with the NP native library.

Best regards,
Thurisaz

Hi @Derrek ,
Well, I have already checked the things and left a comment that the problem is Iconica Sketch related in reply to Andro and Mike_999, above. :slight_smile:
The team behind the library should fix it. I suppose Daniel already warned them about the issue?!

Greetings,
Thurisaz

It’s common for instruments to be in the wrong octave. We fix that inside NPPE.

The tubular bells in Iconica Sketch should be transposed up an octave by NPPE, so this problem should be compensated for.

Maybe you could try deactivating the engine in NPPE, and redownload it?

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It would be nice, if NPPE would have an auto update function or at least a notification, if there is a newer version of a playback engine available.

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Hi Arne,
I did try to deactivate and re-download the Iconica Sketch Engine.
The issue still persists.
When you click by mouse over the note it sounds as expected, but when you press playback (space button) it sounds octave lower. This was the situation before.
I suppose the library team should fix it. The samples are placed in the wrong octave range in Halion.
With the very same project but using the native NP library, the Tubular Bells sound fine as notated.

Best regards,
Thurisaz

There already is. NPPE checks for updates, but only on startup.

Unfortunately, I’m unable to reproduce that. This video shows what it sounds like on my end:

Link

That’s great! (I misunderstood your post.)