Double check that the trill stave is set to send to Bidule, over channel 2 in Dorico’s play tab. If you are running it from a seperate stave, it doesn’t really need to go through your program change network, and you don’t need anything special in the expression map for that stave either…use another splitter set to channel mode in parallel and go straight to the plugin from channel 2.
I’ve attached a bidule layout of the image above you can “Open” in Bidule. Of course you’d replace my Dummy conncetions with the output from your live Bidule instance.
As for doing it all on the same stave, one can get creative and work a little outside the box. Borrow a technique from somewhere else. Maybe something obscure meant for percussion.
Drop that snares-on technique on the first note of your trill.
To hide those techniques from view/printing, select them and change the alpha level until it becomes invisible.
Under your single stave scenario, of course you’d go back to channel bouncing through your articulations that need them. EW-DoricoExample.zip (1.53 KB)
Here’s the set-up that finally works, perfect playback (click for a high-resolution image):
MIDI monitoring is sweet, too, by the way. I could clearly see that the third MIDI channel was receiving no information at all. It was a big help to have my suspicion confirmed.
Brian, I can’t tell you what a tremendous help you’ve been, here. I was unhappily looking forward to many weeks of hacking my playback and creating unsightly views of my music just to get decent audio. Now, I can look forward to a score that plays beautifully with far less trickery on the pages of the score itself. A huge bonus is that I have a killer new toy in my musical tool chest, one with loads of promise!
Sorry, where’s that done? A couple of times since I got Dorico last week, I looked around for some way to hide/show elements on the page, never found anything (neither in Write mode, nor in Engrave mode).
I’ll work out a short demo score to show a way to hack in trill playback on the same stave. Do you have HALion Sonic updated to the latest version 3? If so I’ll just use that to base things on (No EW library here), so the score will hopefully just load up for you and work. From there you could replace Sonic with whatever plugin(s) you like after checking it out.
I’ll go ahead and show a demo with an arp engine too, for situations where you really want a trill to be base off a regular arco patch and to be in the proper ‘tempo’.
I changed my mind about using a sticky technique, but I’ll try to toss together an example.
Brian, what’s the trick to making changes to the Bidule patch bay stick? Many times, when I edit my network, I will close and then re-open Dorico, only to find that none of my changes were preserved. Very annoying.
EDIT: I’m not sure whether Dorico or Bidule is at fault, but it looks like forcing a save of the score does the trick. I never had to do that in SIbelius; plug-in changes persisted regardless of whether I made changes to the score.
Correct, you’ll need to save your Dorico Score so it gets the proper settings embedded. You can also save a *.bidule file directly from Bidule that can serve as a kind of inter-project ready preset. Once you get a work-flow ‘starting point’ that you like to use alot it’s a good idea to save a copy that way.
You can also make Bidule presets in Dorico, and even set up a ‘default’ one.
Here is the sample score I worked up that demonstrates a method of forcing metered trills to play from a single staff. The example uses HALion Sonic SE 3 inside a stereo output instance of Bidule VSTi. Arp engines are used to generate the trill in tempo using a plain arco Solo Violin from the Artist content pack that comes with Dorico.
The method relies on borrowing some techniques that were meant for guitar and using those in the expression map.
“downstrum” for a fast half trill.
“upstrum” for a fast whole trill.
“left-hand-tap” for a fast tremolo.
“fadein” for a slower half trill.
“fadeout” for a fast whole trill.
Inside the “Trill Hack Uno” expression map, Program Changes are used to channel hop in order to choose the proper articulation. Trill techniques use CC14 to change the duration parameter of the arp meter (I.E. toggle between 8th, 16th, 32nd note trills, etc.).
In the attached score, all of the technique entries are showing. To hide a technique, one would select it and change the alpha channel to 0 for the ‘color’ in the bottom “common panel” of write mode.
Note that in the example I keep repeating the nat. technique. This is important to insure that Dorico clears all the techniques for a fresh start. When building a trill I’d typically enter things in this order:
Enter the note.
Select the note and then enter a trill as you normally would.
With the note or trill selected, enter one of our alternate trill or tremolo techniques from above.
If you want mutes, enter a mute or con sord. technique next.
Finally enter a nat. technique.
At this point the trill should play back properly.
If you have a situation where you want a trill from a note that also has an articulation marking such as staccato/tenuto/etc. Then you’ll need to duplicate expression map entries and make combi techniques (Open a technique and hold ctrl while selecting multiple techniques. I.E. staccato+fadein).
This stuff will be MUCH easier and smoother when we get custom techniques in Dorico that support your choice of temporary or sticky mode and exclusion groups. Meanwhile, the trick is to use plenty of “nat.” resets, and/or stack up redundant expression map entries.
It will be even easier when Dorico plays back trills according to the notation for half or whole steps (and you probably haven’t even started on seamlessly stitching turns on the end of trills, starting on the main or the upper note, etc…)
Yeah, writing software is often more fun than testing every option, especially when you have a “combination explosion” like the current state of playing techniques
I’m impressed with the meat of Dorico for a version 1.x release (The workflow, scoring, and engraving). It seems the team has the right priorities (It’s all about workflow, and quality of the printed score and parts), and there are ways to fudge all this playback stuff until they can devote more man-hours to get all that in here. I don’t begrudge Dorcio one bit for focusing on the score side, and getting that as optomized and full featured as possible before worrying excessively about the playback. It makes sense that some features for the score/parts can be a release or two ahead of making it play-back.
If we just get those custom techniques with proper mode selection (temp vs latched) and exclusion groups, and controller lanes of some sort over the next few releases, we can do alot of this stuff (trills, tremolos, turns, etc) in our instruments themselves. Lots of libraries comes with tweakable arp engines in their high end players. HALion 6 has them, Kontakt has them, and while I’ve not looked very deeply into things like Vienna and EastWest libraries, I’d imagine that some of their high-end players do too. For those that don’t have them in a form that users can easily access, there are always tools like Bidule.
Its not hard at all to make this stuff in Bidule (specific turns/trills/ornaments) and have any simple instrument from any ole plug-in play them back (A GM solo Violin patch for instance) in perfect sync with the tempo. There are at least 3 types of arp engines with different methods to tweak them (including micro-tuning options). There’s also a simple 32 step sequencer for creating ornaments and stuff, so it really comes in handy for getting quick renderings of a score. For someone that doesn’t work in scores all that often, it’s probably no big deal to just draw the stuff on another stave as needed…but if you’re writing music all day, almost every day, it’s worth it to pull up something like a Bidule window and add whatever you haven’t built already to the tool box. From there on out, it’s pretty simple to pull up the expression map and add in the Dorico side triggers for it.
Right now, the most time-consuming issue for me is figuring out which Dorcio techniques that we can actually get on a score are active as actual play-back techniques, and what they are called when we pull up the list in in the expression map builder. I.E. I probably spent a good 10 minutes hunting down the substitute techniques to drive the trills in the example score I posted in this thread.
I’ve found a way to get rewire in Dorico. This makes it possible for people to try the free stand-alone demo of Bidule with Dorico. It also makes it possible for registered Bidule users to use the discrete processing build of Bidule and get audio routed back into the current release of Dorico.
This option also eliminates having to mess with virtual midi ports.
Not just for Bidule, but anything capable of running as a rewire slave (Reason, Sibelius, Finale, and more)…
I had used this tool some time ago with Finale in order to use 64bit plugins back when Finale itself was 32bit only. I slap forgot about it until today when I was tinkering with an older stand-by PC that was still running the configuration.
I think channel bouncing came up a time or two in this thread (or somewhere similar).
Here’s a couple of Bidules I threw together to help me out with workflow in Dorico:
Channel Bouncer: Use program changes to bounce MIDI channels in Bidule. The bidule could also be altered to work via key-switches or CC events (could be very useful now that we’ve got CC lanes in Dorico 2).
Dorico Tracker: Sync a stereo audio file with Dorico’s transport and route its audio output into the Dorico Mixer. Just load a file and move a slider to control when the file starts playing (relative to Dorico’s transport position). If the default range of the slider is not big enough you can easily change that from the main UI. It defaults to recording and playing back through output channels 31 and 32 of the group, and you can easily change that via simple routing matrix included in the Bidule.
Sometimes one might want to do some simple recording without having to leave the Dorico Work-flow…
Dorico Tracker can also be used to record (64 channel mix down to a stereo file) anything hosted inside, or routed into the Bidule instance (I.E. via ReaStream, and a second stand alone instance of Bidule). This comes in handy for ‘freezing’ virtual instruments into a pure audio file (I.E. to free up system resources for more plugins).
The bidule group can be modified rather easily if you want to make it a multi-tracker, build mixing effect chains, etc. Things get routed through a matrix, so you can change that up fairly easily without having to wade through a rat’s nest of tangled virtual-cables.