One more thing to add to the “jumping not to a point that would make sense” topic:
When you enter notes in Lock mode (so the cursor immediately jumps to the next note) and the next note is actually quite far away, Dorico will not bring this next note on the screen.
I have an example in front of me, where the next note will be about 30 bars away, but Dorico jumps not far enough. I have to scroll about 14 bars manually.
(What’s interesting: If I start inputting at the very last note before the jump and overwrite it, then the jump works perfectly. If I instead choose to overwrite the last 2 or 3 notes, Dorico will do this too-short jump.)
I was hoping the erratic zoom behavior was fixed by the 2.2 update, but apparently not. If I’m in Write mode and zoom in to adjust something (say at 200%), then switch to Engrave mode to adjust positioning, the view reverts to full page (~101%). If I zoom on again (200%), make adjustments, then change back to Write mode, the display reverts to full page (~101%). Again switching to Engrave mode puts it back at full page, not the zoom level I was at previously. Is it possible to remember the zoom levels when switching between modes? It seems I am continually trying to return to a previous zoom level, but have to change it manually every time I change modes. Can this be resolved?
I’m working in Page view,if it makes a difference.
Dwlarson, did you see this post from Daniel?
I am glad to hear that there are some improvements in page mode. But I always expect page mode to move around somewhat as notes are added or removed. The whole purpose of galley view, it seems to me, is to NOT jump around. It is a shame that we can’t get this problem fixed. It seems like it is mostly a matter of simply not trying to put the selected note in the middle of the screen. Just stop doing that.
It is as if a painter is trying to make delicate strokes on a canvas whole somebody is holding the canvas and jerking it around at the same time. This ain’t right. I have been able to reduce my frustration by being careful to unselect notes before doing other things, but really, we shouldn’t have to do that.
Please fix this.
Hi,
please fix this moving around of the screen. It is the one thing which by far costs me the most time always having to click back and most of the time after unselecting to zoom back to the original level.
There are definitely some real bugs in the behaviour: It makes absolutely no sense to have the actual note input not in view. This is somthing I quite often experience: I enter notes in Note input mode, sometimes doricos follows the input, sometimes not. Especially when entering things like tuplets it very annoying to have to zoom and locate back, leaving the tuplet half done, or having to enter it blind.
In my opinion, the erratic display behaviour of dorico is the most ennerving problem preventing an elegant workfolw. So please fix this and I think: the simpler the better!
Torsten
Please capture a screen recording of this behaviour you describe where Dorico does not follow note input when you are inputting tuplets and post it or a link to it here.
Most of the situations are related to Dorico’s insistence on (somewhat randomly) centering the galley view on whatever might have been selected, even if it is entirely off screen and irrelevant to the current task.
Here’s one that sent me into hyperspace tonight. I had some notes selected at the end of a flow. I was finished with that. I scrolled to near the beginning of the flow and clicked on a staff. I was still in note entry mode, so this entered a note I didn’t want. My mistake.
So naturally, I hit ESC to exit the note entry mode, then hit Ctrl-Z to undo that errant note entry. That should have been the end of it, right?
Instead, the undo, caused those notes to be re-selected at the end of the flow, and in turn, Dorico jumped back to the end of the flow. I cannot express how irritating, disorienting, and disruptive this behavior is. Is there really not a simple way to make Dorico stop trying to center the window on the selection? That serves no useful purpose, as far as I can see.
When I select a flow in setup mode by clicking it and then hit ctrl-2 in oder to switch to write mode them I am back to the beginning of the 1st flow.
Not very helpful…
The jumping around is exacerbated by Dorico’s undo including selection; I wish there was a way to filter that out of undo.
Goodness me.
I don’t think this is germane to the current discussion, but it has certainly been discussed elsewhere on the forum (e.g. here).
In general this isn’t something that happens. Are you using a zoom level like ‘Fit page width’ (or one of the other ‘Fit…’ zoom levels)? If so, then when changing mode the changing geometry of the viewport area resulting from the fact that you may have different panels showing around the window edges, and the panels are of different sizes even if they are all visible, the program can lose track of which page was in view. If, however, you’re using one of the percentage-based zoom levels, I would be interested to see a screen capture recording of this happening, along with information about your screen resolution.
Well, I have to disagree on this point. Of course it’s important that Dorico should bring the selection into view. If it didn’t, you would find it just as infuriating if you then hit e.g. S for a slur, only to find that it has been added hundreds of bars away. I don’t know whether you’re aware, but the Ctrl+D/Command-D shortcut to clear the current selection might also be useful if you know you’re done with a particular area. Or it may not, of course.
Not at all. At least it would be obvious what had happened and why, and I could rectify that with a single ctrl-Z and not lose 30 seconds regaining my bearings and wondering what else I might have damaged.
My guess is that you have lived with this behavior so long, you consider it normal. I don’t expect I will ever consider this wacky, random jumping around to be normal. There are a great many virtues in the Dorico system and more to come, I’m sure. It is pity to have this one area be so off-putting.
Also, it seems that this particular problem (where distant notes are re-selected upon ctrl-Z) could be improved if the program could treat the undo as two distinct events (i.e undo the mistake, but don’t re-select unless I hit ctrl-Z a second time.)
How would it be “obvious” that you had created something that was off screen - especially if you pressed S by accident while intending to do something else? (for example Ctrl+S for Save).
I think that is a very unlikely scenario for me.
How about a program preference that will give the user the choice whether to center the selection or not?
For what it’s worth, we know that the devs are very aware of the problems we have in that field. I find the latest update has improved things in many situations, and I feel quite confident that they will try and refine it through the next updates.
Well, I’m not so confident as you that I never ever make mistakes.
I would have thought is was a basic rule of any software user interface that if you change some data, you can see that you changed it. Obviously if you do a global change you can’t see everything you changed, but you should be able to see that something changed, as feedback that you did what you intended to do.
If a music notation app was putting random slurs in random places in the score behind my back when I thought I was saving the score, I wouldn’t want to use it for anything serious!
I would have thought it is a basic rule of creating art that you don;t yank the canvas around while the artist is trying to paint.
Surely this is a solvable problem. I used Finale for 20 years and never had such a problem. I bought a Sibelius license in 2005 and could never get past the whack-a-mole problem that program had.
The more I think of it, the more strongly I believe that Dorico just can’t get it right for us - but not for the reasons you might think.
What is good or is not good depends on what you want just now.
Example:
I select a very long tied note.
Do I want to edit something at the beginning of the note like add an accent? Dorico should scroll to the beginning of the note.
Do I want to edit something at the end of the note, like edit its length? Dorico should bring its end onto the screen.
BUT:
Do I want to add an accent but don’t need Dorico to scroll to the beginning of the note because I know my keyboard shortcuts? Dorico should do the opposite of what I have just suggested.
Or do I want to shorten its length but don’t need to see the end of it because I know the grid length? Dorico should do the opposite of what I have just suggested.
See, at least sometimes Dorico can do just as much as it can.
When it does it right, we don’t notice because it’s just as it should be. When it gets it wrong, we post here.
I don’t want or need it to move at all. I know how to scroll. I have a mouse with a scroll wheel. And I invested significant amounts of money to have 3 large monitors. I have a broad field of view on the glass in front of me.
I realize others see it differently, but the current mode of operation is a significant turn-off for some people. If is is not possible to come up with a “one size fits all” style of operation, then I’d suggest it would be wise to at least offer users an option to disable all that re-centering activity. I’d be perfectly happy if the default was the current mode of operation if I had the ability to disable that re-centering at my own peril.
I am also happy to be patient for the Dorico team to examine their fundamental assumptions to see if they can devise an elegant solution and I can live with the current situation. I do not, however, think it is good to deny the problem.
I don’t want to add too much here…
but I think a great partial solution, would perhaps be a dialog box that says “You are about to enter something into the score that is not in view. Do you want toi proceed?” That way, if something is accidentally selected, that is way out of view, that the program warns you. With this, you could somewhat eliminate all jumping around, perhaps?
Robby
That is worse than useless if you can’t predict when the dialog will appear, unless you are working so slowly that you never type ahead.
If I’m creating dynamics, I type things like “Dp cresc ff” at 50 words per minute without stopping to see if an electronic nanny is going to interrupt me after the “D”!
The Sibelius version of this was even sillier, because it sometimes warned you about creating something off-screen when it WASN’T off-screen.