Dorico, NotePerformer, VEPRO, other sound libraries, MIR

Hi,

Make a hypothesis: you want to mix NotePerformer with some libraries you have to run on VSL’s Vienna Ensemble Pro. The reason may be that these libraries are not fully compatible with Dorico in their VST version, while work great as Audio Units. Or you have to make a multi, only possible with VEPRO.

You can do it, and it works great!

In Dorico’s mixer, add an Insert FX, and send NotePerformer’s instrument output to one of VEPRO Audio Inputs. Repeat it on all channels with NotePerformer sounds to be send to VEPRO.

Lower NotePerformer’s internal reverb to zero.

In VEPRO, create an Audio Input channel for each of NotePerformer sounds. Link them, and they will be VEPRO’s mixer channels for NotePerformer.

In VEPRO, add a MIR PRO plugin (either from the VEPRO instance, or as an AU plugin). Send there the NotePerformer sounds. If you want to use different libraries for the same type of sound, use a Bus to send more channels to the same MIR PRO icon.

The result is excellent. The sounds from NotePerfomer become more real, more 3D, with the processing from MIR and the mix with the other sounds.

I don’t know, yet, if NotePerformer and the other libraries play in sync, but so it seems.

Paolo

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I’ve done a test with a few notes with NotePerformer, conTimbre, VSL VI (two notes each). Quite astringent, since I was also testing microtones. Is the switch between virtual instruments too apparent?

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/dorico/np-cT-vsl.mp3

Paolo

Ouch – sending separate NP instruments to VEPRO/MIR is not possible. You can do when setting things up, but then, when reopening the Dorico project, all instruments are grouped to a single NP instance. All sends are gone.

Paolo

Hi Paolo. I have a way to load NotePerformer inside VE Pro, which means I can map instruments to stage locations in MIR. It makes quite a difference, being able to spatially separate instruments, you can get some added clarity. Also allows you to EQ each instrument individually.

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ok. how do you do that?

That is a good question. Pardon me, but what’s the point in writing "I know how I can do that " in a forum if you don’t explain how you do it?

OK fair point.

I had to write a custom shim VST.

I wasn’t sure that I wasn’t the only person interested in using NP inside VE Pro with MIR. Paolo was the only other person I had seen discussing it over the years.

So I posted here to see if anyone else is interested. I could turn it into something if so.

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I’d be interested! Please tell us more when you have the time!

Hi adrien, I would also like to know how you got Noteperformer in the VE Pro and MIR setting. Any chance, you may briefly tell us how you did this?

sent you a PM

Could you please send the same information to me as well? I’d be very interested on this!

NP inside Dorico uses other techniques to lock to the host software. And the processing of MIDI messages is significantly different between Sibelius and Dorico, so that if you load NP in VE in “sibelius” mode, and drive it from Dorico, it breaks a lot of things (all the instrument selection, and articulations).

If there’s anyone here from Vienna Labs, you should think about making available information about the host to the remote VSTs. This could allow product-locked VSTs to maybe support remote loading in VE.

I don’t think NP will ever work with VePro. The developer of NP has a lot of stuff going on that he has told me himself make it “impossible” to use in a generic way from inside a DAW or other host…it is very tightly integrated with each of the supported notational programs.

The right solution for Dorico is to make multi-out audio work correctly with NP so that we can in some way use Dorico to route each instrument inside the multi-timbral NP instrument through separate MirPro plugin instances. I’m not sure if NP is the problem or Dorico, probably NP…which needs to enable multi-out audio in order to support this.

or another solution would be for Dorico to never use Multi=timbral instances of NP…only single instrument per NP instance. Then again…there would end up a seperate instrument channel in Dorico’s mixer and we could insert MirPro after it.

Even if you put NP inside VePro its some of the same issue regarding proper support of multi-out audio that would come to play.

NP inside VEPro loads instance per track. So you can put effects on each instrument. It could be made to work with Dorico, but Arne is very (and rightly) concerned about opening up NP to be driven from unsupported hosts (e.g. Logic / Cubase etc) via VE Pro. I personally hope that with cooperation from VSL these concerns could be allayed. In the meantime it works pretty well with Sibelius. But this is a Dorico forum.

since you don’t seem to want to tell us how to do it, its just theory anyway

No, I’m using it. I didn’t photoshop up that image. But out of courtesy to Arne I haven’t been making the method public.

Ok. Just wondering why you would not tell us that in the first place. “It’s possible to do it, but Arne Wallander asked me not to share the method”. Or simply not writing it’s possible. It simply creates frustration among us users who would like to use NotePerformer in VEPro for some sounds that are not in our other (pricy) libraries. Still, it’s nice to know that there are limitations and that the process is not (it doesn’t seem, reading between the lines) easy.

Just timing. I posted that 3 days ago before I had the conversation with Arne.

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It would be (I believe) simple to allow NP to run in VE Pro. It works well as far as I can tell from Sibelius. Arne I’m sure could make it work from Dorico. There are additional considerations (such as mapping instruments to channels).

He doesn’t want NP to be used from non-supported hosts (e.g. not SDF) because of the nightmare support issues he foresees. But I think it would be very interesting to find out how many people would be interested in this solution. Sorry if you find that frustrating. I have been researching ways to allow a VE pro loaded VST to establish what the remote host is. Could do it with a host-loaded shim between the host and the VE client VST, which uses e.g. SysEx to communicate to the shim running in the VE engine. That could allow a VST (such as NP) to know what the remote host is, and ensure it’s supported.

@Paolo_T I think you can accomplish MirPro in Dorico. What you need to do is duplicate each NP instance so that if you normally have 16 orch instruments playing through one NP instance, duplicate that NP instance 15 times…and then reassign playback of each instrument in the score to these so that each NP instance is only actually playing one instrument.

If you do that, then you end up with, in this case, 16 mixer channels, each of which can have MirPro inserted…and works as expected. And when I save this project and reload.,…its still as is like that.

Just make sure each instance of NP is only playing one instrument.

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