Dorico Pro 3 Audio Engine Crash After Switching Playback Template

Hello Dorico crew,
I’ve got an Audio Engine crash on quitting Dorico.
First I would like to mention that I didn’t install the Dorico Sound Content. The Halion SE I have is installed alongside with Cubase Pro 10.
I decided to test NotePerformer 3.3.1 Trial and have switched the Playback Template from HSS to NotePerformer. The playback was fine.
When I decided to Quit Dorico a message for missing files appeared, and after pressing OK the crash happened.
Missing files should not lead to crash!

The crashes are attached below.

Best regards,
Thurisaz
Dorico Audio Engine Crash 14.1.2020.zip (1.63 MB)

A first quick look shows that HALion Sonic SE is crashing. Will dig deeper…

In the meantime: According to the crash you have HSSE 3.3.0 but there is a newer version (3.3.1) available via our website. Please download that and see if that is any better. Thanks.
Here the link: https://www.steinberg.net/index.php?id=downloads_halion_sonic_se_3&L=0

Thank you for the reply, Ulf! :slight_smile:
I did test with Halion SE 3.3.1, the result is the same. You could check the dump file attached below.

I wish you success with solving this issue! :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:
VSTAudioEngine33.0.10.132 64bit 2020.1.14 17.49.dmp (530 KB)

Ulf, would be great if something could be done to the Audio Engine, to preserve it from crashing in case of plugin issues.
Greetings :slight_smile:

Thurisaz, we do have some measures in place, but those can’t cover 100% of all possible scenarios. Therefore a crash is not always avoidable. But we will look into the HALion crash and fix it.

One more question: You say that also 3.3.1 crashes with you, so the crash is reproducible with you, right? What exact files is HSSE complaining for?
According to the audio engine log, you don’t have HALion Symphonic Orchestra installed, but all the standard contents of HSSE are around.
Also, you say that you use NotePerformer and in that case HSSE should not be in the project, so I wonder.
Does the crash happen with any project or only specific ones? Would it be possible to get hands on them to take a closer look?

Ulf hello,
The project I was using was one of these which come with Dorico and they are created previously with Halion - Hewitt Jones- DORICOverture.
So I have to switch the Playback Template to NotePerformer.
In the warning message which pops up on closing the project there is no information about which exactly files are missing.
I hope this is helpful information for you! :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Thurisaz

That project was written in a pre-1.0 build of Dorico; there might be some idiosyncrasies…

Leo, since the project works… The problem with HSSE should be fixed.
Still I don’t have big projects in Dorico, and I prefer to use better sounding libraries.
At the moment I’m in process of learning Dorico and reporting some problems.

Best regards,
Thurisaz

Thurisaz, could you please help us to reproduce the issue? You said you also tried with HSSE 3.3.1 and it also crashed, so it seems it is reproducible with you. What are the exact steps you do? Thanks for an explanation.

Ulf,
Try the following steps:

  1. Make sure that NotePerformes is set as Default Playback Template in the Preferences > Play
  2. Restart Dorico
  3. Open the DORICOverture project
  4. Go to Play Mode (you’ll notice that Halion is loaded in the VST Instrument Rack)
  5. Navigate to Play (drop-down menu) > Playback Template
  6. Switch to NotePerformer and Apply
  7. You can press Space for few bars just to ensure that everything plays
  8. Close the project

Result 1: You’ll notice that the following dialog appears hidden behind the Steinberg Hub:
Halion Missing Files Dialog.png
9. Press “OK” on this dialog

Result 2: Message for the Audio engine crash will appear.

I hope this could help you! :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Thurisaz

Thanks very much, Thurisaz, now I completely understand the situation. In order to reproduce the issue, I also needed to move the HSO contents out of the way.

Then, this is what is happening. You load the DoricOverture project and already during loading of that project the missing files dialog pops up. Most likely you did not see it, because it was hidden by the main window. Then you choose the NotePerformer template, which should unload HSSE, but because the (hidden) missing files dialog it is still around, it can’t get unloaded and lingers on. Still, NotePerformer gets loaded and can play. When you close the project, suddenly the missing files dialog comes to front and you click okay, but by that time HSSE is in a half destructed state and in turn crashes.

So all together it is an unluckily combination of circumstances. You don’t have HSO installed, the missing files dialog does not get to front, you change to NP template, you click the missing files dialog too late. That’s why you are the first to report the issue. But at least we have a reproduction now. Won’t become an easy one, but let’s see how we can fix this…

Ulf, I’m glad that I was able to help you with this bug! :slight_smile:
There are two major issues with Dorico… such dialogs and the plugin container windows appear behind the applications, and very often they are
invisible.
These windows must appear always in front of the app! :slight_smile:
The Plugin container must load the instruments closed and when you press “e” or the “keyboard” buttons to appear in front. Just like in any DAW and Overture.
In Cubase any message appear in front as expected to be. When you open a project in Cubase it loads the instruments closed, and the plugin container
appears only if it’s invoked by the user.
Please, fix this issue, too! :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Thurisaz

It’s difficult to fix that at the moment because, unlike in Cubase where everything is happening within the same process, the audio engine, which owns all of the windows and dialogs shown by VST instruments and effects, is a separate process, and so its windows exist inside its own Z-order space. I’m sure that in the future we can improve this situation, but it’s not easy.

Hello Daniel, and thank you for the answer! :slight_smile:
The most important thing is that you have in mind to fix this in the future. :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

P.S: Here is a topic which also needs more thinking: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=178068
Things like Combined Playback Techniques and Exclusion Groups are things that can be removed (they are just additional tech things
that are wasting creative time). Every educated musician is aware which techniques can’t be combined (arco and pizz. etc…)
Another example… Why do I need to create additional Combined Playback Techniques (Accent and Harmonics) since both techniques are
already separately assigned to the Expression Maps?! Absolutely unneeded step! Just if you combine them both on the Score Sheet in Write mode, they have to playback as expected.

Please don’t link to other threads simply to try to draw our attention to it after you have already posted it: I consider it akin to bumping, which I find a bit rude and inconsiderate of the time constraints that I and other members of the team operate under.

I read everything on the forum. If I don’t reply to every single thread, it’s not because I have not read and digested its contents. Sometimes I cannot formulate an appropriate reply immediately, in which case I leave the thread open in my browser so I can return to it when I have time. Sometimes I have nothing specific to add, in which case I will say nothing, but you can rest assured that I read and consider absolutely every post on this forum. I and other members of the team have many responsibilities to discharge beyond reading the forum, and we cannot respond to absolutely everything.

We understand your point of view as expressed and appreciate your feedback, but we ask you to trust us to design and implement solutions. Thank you!

Daniel,
Thank you for the reply!
Sorry if you find something rude in my last comment here!
I trust the Team behind Dorico and truly respect your hard work, that’s why I’ve switched to your product. I’m just sharing opinion for something which can be simplified a lot without doing any design, or philosophy changes to the current product.
Yes, the simplification is to benefit us, your users and probably isn’t that easy to be realized as coding process.
Thank you for your understanding! :slight_smile:

Best regards and respect,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

Thank you, Thuriasz. I am glad you have decided to buy Dorico and hope you will enjoy using it now and for many years to come.

Thank you for the wish, Daniel! :slight_smile: I’m sure that I’ll enjoy it! I wish good health, success and prosperity to all of your team! :slight_smile:
Keep walking… :slight_smile: