Dorico selects wrong horizontal eighth note beam option. Bug?

In Engraving Options>Beams>Vertical Position>Horizontal eighth note (quaver) beams within the staff. Dorico selects option above “Snap to staff line positions” in factory default state. However, the actual Dorico’s beam behavior is showing option below “Use natural stem length”.
Also, if I change the option to “Use natural stem length” below, then Dorico’s actual beam behavior shows “Snap to staff line positions” which Ted Ross recommended.
The option which Dorico selects do not match the actual behavior. Aren’t the positions of these two options upside down?
Dorico selects wrong horizontal eighth note beam option

Dorico selects wrong horizontal eighth note beam option…dorico (363.3 KB)

There is a complex interaction between the Horizontal eighth note (quaver) beams within the staff setting on the Beams page and the Stem shortening for beamed groups setting on the Notes page, which means that a straightforward comparison of these two images is not instructive.

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Thanks for a reply, @dspreadbury.
I’m not comparing of these two images. Please pay attention to the meaning of selected option’s title “Snap to staff line positions” and the explanation written below images in engraving options. It says

"Ted Ross states that for horizontal beams for stem-up notes positioned in the staff, beams cannot sit on a staff line; for horizontal beams for stem-down notes positioned in the staff, beams cannot hang from a staff line. To follow these rules, choose ‘snap to staff line positions’. "

When “Snap to staff line positions” is selected, Dorico generates beams sitting on a staff line for stem-up notes and beams hanging from a staff line for stem-down notes which Ted Ross forbids, no matter which the “Stem shortening for beamed groups” setting on the Notes page is selected. (See my GIF attached below.)
dorico generates sit and hang beam

Doesn’t this behavior contradict with a explanation for “Snap to staff line positions” in the Engraving Options? Why choosing “Snap to staff line positions” in Engraving Options generates these beams which Ted Ross forbids? That’s my question.

I vaguely remember this being discussed before. I don’t remember the official explanation, but at least with the rest of my settings, I think I just decided it was a typo and picked the other setting there. I’m getting all the correct settings that Ross specifies here anyway:


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Thanks for a reply, @FredGUnn .

I agree. I think it’s a typo where the two options are in opposite positions.
If we change the option to “Use natural stem length” below, then Dorico’s actual beam get “Snap to staff line positions” behavior which Ted Ross recommends, like you did.

If it’s a typo, I want Dorico team to fix it.

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I think there are other settings in play here too. I’m not getting the sit/hang settings for the E4/F5 like your lower image regardless of whether I select “Snap to line positions” or “Use natural stem lengths” with my settings. I’ve changed a lot of my Engraving Options, but here’s what I get:

It does seem like an error that the option the window states to select for Ross-style beaming is the one that produces the wrong result, and the other one produces the correct result. Perhaps other settings in combination make it work correctly, but it seems like the description states to select the wrong setting.

The factory default settings are actually even worse if you are trying to do Ross-style beaming. Here’s what I get resetting Engraving Options to factory:

In any case, “Use natural stem lengths” in combination with my other settings produces “correct” beaming according to Ross, so that’s what I’m sticking with for now. I do remember quite a bit of trial and error configuring this when I first started using Dorico.

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I corresponded with Daniel about this some time ago and it seems as though it’s not yet been sorted, understandably so as I think it’s pretty complex and niche, shall we say.

Another aspect that’s particularly odd is those pictures and their captions in Engraving Options. The upper picture is labelled ‘Snap to staff line positions’, yet the other option also does this – one would hope that in all circumstances beams are attached to staff lines, as indeed they seem to be, so I’m not sure what is meant by this phrase. Perhaps it should just be labelled ‘Ted Ross stem lengths’.

In the lower picture, described as ‘Use natural stem lengths’, none of the stems have what I would assume was meant by ‘natural’, namely a length of 3.5 spaces. I’m not sure what effect this option is meant to achieve – perhaps consistent stem lengths of 3.5 spaces (or whatever is set as Default stem length in Engraving Options/Notes/Stems) are indeed intended, and only the picture is wrong.

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I don’t think this problem is pretty complex. Rather, I think it seems to be a simple bug or typo that can be easily fixed.

From factory default setting(Reset to factory), please change “Stem shortening for beamed groups” on the Notes option page to “Shorten beamed stems” in the left, and go back to Beams option which we are now discussing. Then, when we set this option to “Snap to staff line positions”, we get exactly the same result as a picture of “Use natural stem length”. And when we change this option to “Use natural stem length”, we get exactly the same result as a picture of “Snap to staff line positions”. (Please see my GIF below.)
opposite beam result Ted Ross
opposite beam result Ted Ross.dorico (363.8 KB)

As we can see from these things, Dorico’s behavior is simply the opposite as far as this option is concerned. So I think this issue can be fixed by simply reversing the up/down position of these pictures and their captions in this option.

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