Dorico Team, please slow down a bit

Dorico
,
1

Dear Dorico.

It’s now been a couple of years since I did the switch from Sibelius to Dorico and I am still loving it. I’ve even used my own money to buy Cubase, to take advantage of the ecosystem that is being built between these two programs.

But alas, success can not always be sustained indefinitely. Even though your user base have grown over the past years, recently do to Finales decision to quit, I begin to see some of the same mistakes that was made in the later years of Sibelius. Before they got some real competition (ironically from you). :grinning_face:

I am unfortunately beginning to see small issues popping up. I want to be careful using the word “errors” so lets stay with issues.

These issues may not appear to be important, do to the fact that the menu items I am referring to still function as they should. But if there are many of these small issues, that’s when it becomes a problem.

To set the stage I would like to come up with an example.

Such an example is, that right now, in dark mode the filemenu has lost its borders. Or they are suddenly not as clear to see as they used to. This makes it a bit difficult to navigate the filemenu, when you want to close a project or export an mp3. And yes, I could use the shortcuts but I can never remember them.

Another example, one that has baffled me for a long time. Why is the “export players window” so small in the export audio popup menu?

And when exporting some audio, why is dorico still making 2 or more folders on my computer when I didn’t ask it to do that? It is an absolute waste of my time, to have to delete these folders every … time?

So my point is this. I ditched Sibelius because the amount of small issues like these had reached a volume that was making me angry.
It was time consuming to have to remember the idiosyncrasies in the menus I was in. And in some cases have to remember to do certain things in the right order, to achieve the desired result.

So right now, I would like to appeal to the Dorico team.

Please try to find some time to slow down. Prioritize a period of time where you can have a look at the things in the background of your most excellent software. Focus on the small things that you have pushed aside, to make room for the new, bigger, more fun developement job to do (cantar?)

In the end, it is always the small things that drives people nuts and as I did, find a way out.

With Kind Regards, Carsten Coach

2

Well, this one is a pet peeve of mine. If I want a folder, I want to be able to name it and define its position in the hierarchy, NOT Dorico. The file operations are just antiquated in Dorico and should, like most other modern applications, allow the user to use the OS’s file operations windows like a normal application.

3

The folder creation drives me nuts too. The built-in Windows or macOS file/folder system is more powerful than anything Dorico can do. Please let us use it!

4

I can see it being a benefit to users who have no idea about file structure or don’t care/don’t want to be bothered; but it would be nice to have an option in general file settings to “manage my own” folders instead of Dorico’s default structure. :+1:t3:
—Jim

5

Unfortunately, this is just one of Dorico’s many areas in need of improvement. When it comes to creating expression maps, the user manual devotes ample space to keyswitches (which I, of course, find beneficial). Those who want to assign MIDI controllers, however, are left in the dark. Well, hardly anyone talks about program changes these days anyway.

6

You can add Program Changes in exactly the same way. What are you in the dark about?

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7

The problem is that in Dorico, you can only enter the MIDI controller number and its range (e.g., up to 127). But if you have a controller that combines two functions (one ranging from 0–64, the other from 65–127), how do I handle that? Admittedly, entering data for the dynamic controller (usually CC1, controlled by the modulation wheel) is easy for me. But put yourself in the shoes of a Dorico user who wants to create an expression map based on a Chris Hein sound library. The more controllers you can address, the more authentically you can shape your performance in Dorico.

Let’s stick with Chris Hein’s libraries. The manuals contain very detailed information about keyswitches and MIDI controllers—truly exemplary. I was very surprised by your answer. After all, the Dorico user manual goes into great detail about working with keyswitches. Where can I find detailed information about working with MIDI controllers?

In attachment the manual of a Chris Hein library for better understanding. Please note: The manual is in german language!

(Attachment CHG Handbuch_Deutsch.pdf is missing)

8

Unfortunately, the intended attachment (Chris Hein Guitars manual) was too large at 4.7 MB, so here’s another one that serves the same purpose.

(attachments)

Chris Hein Bass DE Manual.pdf (1.23 MB)

9

I think all your examples point to the fact that Dorico uses the qt framework, to give it the ability to run on Windows, macOS, and iPadOS - without needing to develop own versions for them. That’s quite an advantage, but at the same time, it depends on the UI of this framework.

10

I’m not sure what the original attachment contained but the one posted immediately after doesn’t contain any CC changes that use a range for different purposes? Or am I wrong/confused?

Cinematic Studio Strings does this though. I can’t remember what the CC# is - modulation, I guess - but there are several articulations to be triggered based on where the modulation value is. For example, 1-20 might be Arco, 21-30 might be Pizz… (these aren’t accurate figures).

This is easy to achieve with Dorico: enter the CC# and an appropriate value within that range.

Is that what you’re trying to achieve, or something else?

11

@carstencoach If you read the Cubase forum you will find many posts of people saying the exact same thing you are saying. They want Cubase to take a break for a year and fix all the little things.

Sadly the economic drivers behind software development do not support this idea very well. I refer you to the Cubase forum for why.

So you are not alone in your desire, but it’s not going to go anywhere. The best you can do is log probable defects here and go on in the hope that they all get read and flagged, and perhaps corrected in the multiple free updates Steinberg produces.

If you want to leave Dorico because of this, where are you going to go? Anywhere else will have the same ecology. Well, you could always move to Lilypond, because if you can code, it’s open source and you can fix things and contribute yourself.

12

Perhaps they could move to a “tick-tock” release cycle for the major versions?

Alternating between the flashy “tick” releases that primarily implement new features (attracting new users and users that want/need to be on the bleeding edge) and “tock” releases that primarily refine the program/bug fix (catering to the existing base, bringing back users who’ve gone elsewhere, good candidates for LTS versions that are an easier sell to the education market).

13

I like your term ‘tick-tock’. I’ve not heard that before. That’s a potentially very good model.

14

You must be a hardware engineer.

15

I think Dorico already uses a “tick-tock” model, usually alternating stressing notation features with playback features. So what you are suggesting is really more like a “hickory-dickory-dock” model.

16

Unfortunately, this is just one of many areas in Dorico where there is room for improvement. Regarding the creation of ‘expression maps,’ the user manual devotes considerable space to ‘keyswitches’ (which I certainly find useful); however, those wishing to assign ‘MIDI controllers’ receive no guidance on the matter. Then again, hardly anyone talks about ‘program changes’ these days.

17

Welcome to the forum, @TonyaHollister

You’ve just copied an earlier post by @aelbler-ralf verbatim. Was that your intention? Or did you mean to quote it, and add something to the discussion?

I’m still not sure what the problem is with Program Changes, though. If someone could provide examples of how the Expression Map falls short, then that would help to show the developers what needs doing.

18

To add a longstanding request of mine: Chris Hein’s libraries especially add expressive endings to notes via a key switch that needs to be triggered during the note. It would be extremely helpful if one could assign a delay to individual keyswitches in the expression map.

Thanks! :smiling_face:
Benji

20

CCs are not Program Changes, they are Continuous Controller changes (the clue is in the name).
If you look at (eg) the Noteperformer map, you will see many examples of CCx=0 messages being sent.

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21

From a quick test, monitoring the MIDI output, it looks like Dorico does send a Program Change of Zero. Here, I tested a Program Change of 1, 0, and 127.

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Edit: and CCx = 0 values are also sent, as Janus shows.

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I seem to recall something like it doesn’t send Note Velocity values of 0, because that implies no actual key press at all!

But of course all this is something of a tangent to the main point of the thread, and should probably be split off.