Dorico vs. Chopin

Hi All,

Ok, the title might be a tease :wink:

I’m trying to input Chopin’s Ballade in G minor into Dorico, however, there is one bar I’m struggling with.

I need to create a group of 39 notes semiquavers “marked as one bar” on the right hand (and crossbreaming), over the left hand “marked as two bars”.

Regardless of whether I try hiding the right hand barline, I can’t divide 39 across two bars.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Kind regards.

Dividing is the easy part, since Dorico will do that for you. To recreate this example, you’ll have to create an open meter or a 8/4 bar on the right-hand staff only, otherwise the middle note will be subdivided into 32ths, but, other than that, it should work like any other tuplet. You need 39 notes on the space of 16*2 16ths, so just create a 39:32 tuplet.

How does this look for you?

If you like it… I created a staff independent time signature on the RH staff (Type Shift+M, the type X, then press ALT+ENTER), I then selected the 16th note hit the tuplet key (:wink: typed 39:32, then entered the notes.

Afterwards I created another staff independent time signature (as above except as 4/4), then I hid both time signatures. If there is a cautionary time signature change, you need to click on the cautionary time signature to make the change to hide the time signature.


Luís and Robby said it all before I could post. But you can do that with all four bars (with the first two having a ratio of 29:16). Be aware that you will have to flip the order of the slur and the ottava line manually (as well as lengthening the hook) and also, you will have to manually adjust the slur. One last thing, I had to use the note spacing tool to bring the notes that are across the barline closer.

Hi All,

Thanks all, much appreciated, I’ll give that a go when I get an opportunity.

Daniel et al, I’m unsure how often notation such as this is used, may I ask, will Dorico support an easier method to notate the above in future releases, or, are the above method/s as would be expected?

Kind regards.

I think Dorico handles this admirably well, and reasonably simply, too. I wouldn’t anticipate us being able to make this situation a great deal easier to handle.

I have to strongly agree with Daniel. In addition, despite what you initially thought, doing such a tuplet across bars (without the independent time signature which we suggested to better replicate the original) is also possible, as can be seen below. One simply has to put the caret at the beginning of the bar, select 16th notes, enter “;”, put the ratio at 39:32, press enter, activate “force durations” (better in this case, not necessary with the individual meter in place) and type away. There will be a tie across the barline which can then be taken away by selecting the tuplet and choose “Spans barline” in the properties panel. It is truly like entering any tuplet. To get the original result requires a couple more steps, but such notation is exceedingly rare and it took me about three minutes to enter the four bars in my first reply and tweak them. I don’t know about Finale, but doing this in Sibelius would be quite difficult, especially when one considers the quality of the result.

I am going to second what Daniel and Claude have said. It took me less than 5 minutes to achieve the result I showed above. And more of that time was “Oh snap, I need to show some bars before and some bars after to show what the whole process looks like (as opposed to this stand alone example)”. Then I created an additional flow, more measures and some music, the copy and pasted. That was all.

Really was quite simple and easy to do. It might “sound” more complicated, but it really wasn’t.


It’s rather more complicated actually playing it…!

And that part is the easiest of the ballad!

I’m quite new to Dorico but with the help of the answer above, I can get to this result in less than 2min! Fast and Impressive.

Just out of interest, is this expected to play back in any kind of realistic way (relating to the measures before and after)?
(I have not used playback for anything yet.)
I am probably thinking of whether there is any difference in the beaming, 16ths or 32nds (or whatever is used) and playback timing or does it just know how long a measure should take to play (in milliseconds) then distribute the notes evenly within that time?

The playback will be accurate, in as much as Dorico will correctly render the tuplet with mathematical precision. It won’t sound much like a human playing it with any kind of nuance of expression, however!

Apologies, I found the handling perfectly fine. I was just curious as I haven’t needed to do such notation before.