Dorico's destructive idiosyncracies - Feature or Bug?

So… I’ve been working on the playback of a huge 20 minute concerto for 3 weekends in a row, roughly around 60 hours in total. I was giving it the final touches and decided to separate the movements into different flows. For some reason it refused to play from the 2nd movement onwards, so decided to restart Dorico. When I reopened it, it still didn’t play, so I started looking around configuration, VST, etc. and to my shock and horror all the playback information is gone from the 2nd movement onwards!

Presumable this happened when I separated the movements into flows , but g*&@#?/{&%*! How can Dorico not just attach all the MIDI information?

Do you have a backup from before you split the flow? Normally, all the playback information should stay the same when you split the flow, so not sure what happened with your project. I’ve certainly split a flow successfully before now, so it’s not normal Dorico behavior if it has failed to playback the new flows. Without seeing your project, no one will be able to diagnose the problem I don’t think.

Yes, I found the backup that still had all the info. Now I’m in the painful process of copying them manually to each instrument… One CC at a time, sigh!

One thing to possibly try. I don’t know if it will work or not, but here is my theory.

Make copies of the working, complete backup, as many copies as you have movements. Do not work on the backup, as that is your “safety net”. Rename the copies with distinctive names so that there is no room for confusion (eg Movement 1, Movement 2, etc., or whatever you find helpful).
After opening each file, delete all the movements except the one you want. For example, in file Movement 1 you would delete movement 2 and those following. In file Movement 2, you would delete movement 1, keep movement 2, delete movement 3 and any others after that, and so on.

My hope is that the playback information will be retained in each of these files after deleting the unwanted movements. As I indicated earlier, this might or might not work.

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Damn! I wish I’d seen your reply earlier. I’ve spent the last 4 hours doing it and I’ve already done like two thirds. I might try your method, but at this point might as well just finish it the way I started…

I appreciate it though!

I might have to try your solution in the end. Manually copying has all sort of issues since Dorico doesn’t copy the information exactly as it is. This is the original:

And this is copied over to the new file:

It’s slightly misaligned, despite it being copied at the exact location, and it adds continuous lines where you had a hard break.

Was is just the CC data that went missing when you split the flow? Interested to know because if I split a flow with CC data, that data stays with the notes. The only thing you have to be careful to do is put a new node at the split point, otherwise the CC data doesn’t have a starting value. Did you try going back to your backup file before you split the flow, and trying the whole split process again?

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No, I haven’t tried it again, but probably will at some point in the future. I still have a few hours left to copy and then I have to “proofread” the playback to find inconsistencies and misalignments.
I will try it again, but probably not before version 5 comes out. There’s no point learning workarounds for bugs that might be gone after the next update… Sigh! Software man…!

Claude, if I understand the original problem correctly, it’s that you had a project with a composition structured as a single flow, and you used Split Flow to split it into multiple flows, but when you did so, none of the MIDI CC data you had created in the Key Editor appeared in the newly-created flows?

That is correct. After 12 hours I have managed to copy the data from the Backup file.

Mind you, this also happens if one enables Independent Voice Playback. All MIDI CC and PB data is lost… :sob:

When you enable independent voice playback, the MIDI CC data isn’t lost, but it isn’t automatically copied to all of the new voices that are created. Perhaps that’s something we could optionally enable in future. I don’t think it’s what you would always want because one of the reasons you would enable independent voice playback is precisely because you want to have the playback be more independent!

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Nice, but where is it and how do I find it?

No, no, no! Not in the new voice. Say I work on 500 bars of playback for an instrument that only contains Upstem Voice 1. Then in the last bar I realise I need another voice (for example for a mordent or KS), so I go to Play, I enable independent playback and voila! All the MIDI CC for the original Upstem Voice 1 is gone.

Are you saying this shouldn’t happen?

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Not to interrupt your conversation at all, but as a sidebar maybe , you are using independent voices for articulations and keyswitches- did I read that right?

That is correct, but it’s not always needed. I made it 500 pages into a concerto before I realised the Horns required an extra voice in the last 16 bars. That’s how I discovered the MIDI data gone.

The workaround was to Undo and create a new hidden instrument to ride it, but at this point my Galley View has hundreds of instruments :joy:!

Hi Daniel, I think there is definitely something not quite right here as Bollen has identified in his original reply. If you have an orchestral piece with a Flute part in Flow 1 and you enable IVP and have say two voices. If at some point you split your flow then you would expect the voices to be the same in terms of routing: The flute upstem voice 1 can only be routed to one VST and the downstem voice 1 to another, regardless of which flow you are currently working on, so you cannot have the same Flute voices being routed to different VST’s from one Flow to another. That is all perfectly fine and expected, but you would expect that any CC data would be copied across if you say split or duplicated the flow, and this does not seem to happen: the CC data for IVP instruments is not duplicated. However, as pointed out above, the voices are still routed to the same VST from one flow to the next. Copy and pasting a bar with two voices using IVP to a different flow with the same IVP setup does not copy the CC data either.

There are definitely many cases where you might have a set of instruments using IVP and then at some point you want to split your piece into one or more flows and all your IVP CC data does indeed seem to vanish. You can’t duplicate the flow and then trim it like I think Steven suggested, because duplicating does not seem to work in this regard either.

In my experiments, it was only when using IVP that these anomalies occurred. Without IVP, everything works perfectly. I hope this is useful information.

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